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  1. #1
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    2021 Chess Para-Olympics (was 2020)

    Are there any details of the Para-lympiad?

    Does Australia intend to send a team? If so, what eligibility criteria will be used for applications?

    I am wondering how disability criteria are defined, since, unlike the paralympics, physical disabilities (apart from vision) do not have any impact upon chess playing ability.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Are there any details of the Para-lympiad?

    Does Australia intend to send a team? If so, what eligibility criteria will be used for applications?

    I am wondering how disability criteria are defined, since, unlike the paralympics, physical disabilities (apart from vision) do not have any impact upon chess playing ability.
    Dear all,

    As a member of the DIS Commission, I can tell you what details I know about this event as far as I understand them:

    1. Round robin format of 12 teams
    2. These teams will come for all continents (3 from each of Africa, America Asia and Europe)
    3. Regarding disabilities, I believe this will be in accordance with the Paralympic Regulations (physical and blind) and Deaflympics (deaf) and if it isn't it will be in accordance to the respective organisations (IPCA - physical, IBCA - blind and ICCD - deaf)

    lost

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Are there any details of the Para-lympiad?

    Does Australia intend to send a team? If so, what eligibility criteria will be used for applications?

    I am wondering how disability criteria are defined, since, unlike the paralympics, physical disabilities (apart from vision) do not have any impact upon chess playing ability.
    Its quite tricky actually. RE vision for instance -some of the players are legally Blind but some are severely ''vision impaired'' and as vision-support devices (aka glasses) are getting better and better. Would be good to see those 2 as separate categories.
    Re Australia sending team - I agree, it would be fantastic for us to have a team there.
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  4. #4
    Premium Member ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ... Would be good to see those 2 as separate categories…
    What do you think about deafness though? I think chesswise it's an advantage! Didn't stop Tigran Petrosian to become a world champion anyway!
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    What do you think about deafness though? I think chesswise it's an advantage! Didn't stop Tigran Petrosian to become a world champion anyway!
    This is complicated...may be harder to learn Chess for those who have hearing problems but there are some chess players who are 100% deaf yet become grandmasters.
    For instance Gruenfeld (Israel) - he was a strong GM (he still plays occasionally).
    Or Verlinsky who defeated Capa in 1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    This is complicated...may be harder to learn Chess for those who have hearing problems but there are some chess players who are 100% deaf yet become grandmasters.
    For instance Gruenfeld (Israel) - he was a strong GM (he still plays occasionally).
    Or Verlinsky who defeated Capa in 1925
    Michael,

    Regarding deafness, I believe that you have to be 60-70% deaf in your best ear, not your worst ear. The criteria for deafness especially when it comes to ICCD standards and Deaflympics procedures it is quite tough.

    lost

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Michael,

    Regarding deafness, I believe that you have to be 60-70% deaf in your best ear, not your worst ear. The criteria for deafness especially when it comes to ICCD standards and Deaflympics procedures it is quite tough.

    lost
    Jamie, thx for the clarification.
    Anyway, since some of the top Deflympians are 100% def (e.g. Gruenfeld) it is not as much of an issue as with other disabilities. I am more curious about criteria for blindness as at least one top visually impaired player (Meshkov) is very clearly not blind and can move around (wearing thick glasses obviously) without any aids, recognises people approaching him, greets them etc. So impaired ...possibly yes but blind ...definitely no.
    Another interesting question: some disabilities (e.g. hearing/vision) are not having an impact as severe as they did say 50 years ago. For example, modern glasses and hearing aids help dramatically.
    And then there are players like Dukachevsky who I believe are fully
    blind from birth.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Jamie, thx for the clarification.
    Anyway, since some of the top Deflympians are 100% def (e.g. Gruenfeld) it is not as much of an issue as with other disabilities. I am more curious about criteria for blindness as at least one top visually impaired player (Meshkov) is very clearly not blind and can move around (wearing thick glasses obviously) without any aids, recognises people approaching him, greets them etc. So impaired ...possibly yes but blind ...definitely no.
    Another interesting question: some disabilities (e.g. hearing/vision) are not having an impact as severe as they did say 50 years ago. For example, modern glasses and hearing aids help dramatically.
    And then there are players like Dukachevsky who I believe are fully
    blind from birth.
    Michael,

    Regarding Blind players, there are 3 categories to my understanding of this but Michael you do raise concerns and I know this is one of the things that is being looked at. So the three of blind players are as follows:

    1. Totally blind - no vision at all
    2. Blind with 10% vision only
    3. Those who are considered legally blind by the Government but may still have some vision that is more than 10%.

    I know there is a Polish GM who is based on the 3rd point and yes this does cause concern because you cannot penalise disability players in chess tournaments for this.

    The Commission will be looking seriously adopting the regulations for Physically Disabled and Blind players as per the regulations of the International Paralympic Committee. As for Deaf players, we will take from Deaflymmpics and ICCD. I believe the ICCD already have the measures of Deaflympics standards for their own players.

    I hope this helps to answer your question or concerns Michael. There are players who have a mental disability and they will not be allowed to play as there would need to be adopted and you would need to have chess included into the Special Olympics.

    lost

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Michael,

    Regarding Blind players, there are 3 categories to my understanding of this but Michael you do raise concerns and I know this is one of the things that is being looked at. So the three of blind players are as follows:

    1. Totally blind - no vision at all
    2. Blind with 10% vision only
    3. Those who are considered legally blind by the Government but may still have some vision that is more than 10%.

    I know there is a Polish GM who is based on the 3rd point and yes this does cause concern because you cannot penalise disability players in chess tournaments for this.

    The Commission will be looking seriously adopting the regulations for Physically Disabled and Blind players as per the regulations of the International Paralympic Committee. As for Deaf players, we will take from Deaflymmpics and ICCD. I believe the ICCD already have the measures of Deaflympics standards for their own players.

    I hope this helps to answer your question or concerns Michael. There are players who have a mental disability and they will not be allowed to play as there would need to be adopted and you would need to have chess included into the Special Olympics.

    lost
    Re mental ...it must be even more complex. I can think of at least 2 2700+ players (one was a top 3 player before) who are mildly autistic. So...not sure if they would be eligible (should they decide to play in such events).
    On the positive side, irrespective of the classifications - having more disability events is an important step forward!
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Dear all,

    As a member of the DIS Commission, I can tell you what details I know about this event as far as I understand them:

    1. Round robin format of 12 teams
    2. These teams will come for all continents (3 from each of Africa, America Asia and Europe)
    3. Regarding disabilities, I believe this will be in accordance with the Paralympic Regulations (physical and blind) and Deaflympics (deaf) and if it isn't it will be in accordance to the respective organisations (IPCA - physical, IBCA - blind and ICCD - deaf)

    lost
    The regulations are posted here: https://www.fide.com/news/325

    I see no Australian players listed here: https://disabled.ge/wr0
    Michael F

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kai View Post
    Are there any details of the Para-lympiad?

    Does Australia intend to send a team? If so, what eligibility criteria will be used for applications?

    I am wondering how disability criteria are defined, since, unlike the paralympics, physical disabilities (apart from vision) do not have any impact upon chess playing ability.
    How can you say that apart from vision no impact??? I played disabled people that turned up at one of our major tournaments so the good players were busy. Well they were confined to wheel chairs and even stretchers, some could not move except for a tong in their mouth that they pushed and dragged pieces with. They would not be able to hold books or turn pages or move chess pages around at random. Some could not talk. Of course I took it easy on them but that was my big mistake and I didn't last very long. I keep that story for when teaching juniors to respect all opponents because you never know who you are playing.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindied View Post
    The regulations are posted here: https://www.fide.com/news/325

    I see no Australian players listed here: https://disabled.ge/wr0
    Re link: gives me ''site suspended'' message.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Re link: gives me ''site suspended'' message.
    Which one?
    The link via the FIDE site certainly works for me - and can click through to the Commissions's website - and the list of players is a link button on right of screen.
    Michael F

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindied View Post
    Which one?
    The link via the FIDE site certainly works for me - and can click through to the Commissions's website - and the list of players is a link button on right of screen.
    The disabled.ge one
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  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    The disabled.ge one
    Doesn't work for me either.

    The link is here: https://disabledchess.org/wr0
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

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