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  1. #1
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    Watches

    https://en.chessbase.com/post/adhiba...nal-teams-2020

    GM lost because of wearing an analogue watch. Probably it is fair that they should be disallowed...however ... he was wearing same watch at a significantly larger event (Gibraltar) and nobody seemed to mind!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    https://en.chessbase.com/post/adhiba...nal-teams-2020 GM lost because of wearing an analogue watch. Probably it is fair that they should be disallowed...however ... he was wearing same watch at a significantly larger event (Gibraltar) and nobody seemed to mind!
    Apparently it's a rule specific to that event. Several commentators have suggested a warning for a first offence would make sense, which I agree with - unless the watch has computational abilities or is capable of transmitting or receiving signals. If it did, then it would definitely be an electronic device under FIDE rules.

    But this statement in the article is incorrect: "Logically if a watch had batteries in it, it would become an electronic one." My torch has batteries, but it's not an 'electronic' device.

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    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    I think the ban on analogue watches ie the type described in the article, is an over-reach under the rules.

    I think it is important to remember what the mobile phone rule is designed to do:

    1) To avoid any possibility that the player is receiving assistance ie either by using a smart watch phone to analyse the game (for instance), or
    2) To distract the opponent by having the watch making noises during the game ie alarms, because as the rules state, it is the responsibility of the player to not distract their opponent in any manner.

    I do not see how an analogue watch falls into either of these categories. Of course, if the players analogue watch starts beeping, or the alarm goes off, then that is when the arbiter should step in. I think something like, after the analogue watch has gone off, a fair decision is for the arbiter to say, 'thank you, I will keep possession of that watch until your game has ended' is sufficient.

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    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Some people out there have got a bit silly about the definition of "electronic", and this possibly reflects language issues with words like "electronic" and "electrical" and available translations in other languages.

    Incidentally smartwatches are a growing problem. I've heard of a case of an Australian club level player being defaulted for wearing one, although there was no evidence of cheating. The rules are black and white - a player wearing a smartwatch that has not been specifically permitted by the arbiter loses the game unless the regulations of the event specify a different less severe penalty.
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    Final round of NSW State Championships, Cameron Mcgowan claimed a win against Vlad Feldman as Mr Feldman was wearing a smart watch. The bigger issue is it was the last round and from what I am told the claim was made after Cameron had exhausted all other avenues of winning. Ths claim got Cameron =1st for the title.
    Honestly the rules are just stupid nowdays, and its why I will not play tournaments anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairMandla View Post
    Final round of NSW State Championships
    You need to get your facts straight. It happened in the third round which isn’t even close to being the last round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlairMandla View Post
    Final round of NSW State Championships, Cameron Mcgowan claimed a win against Vlad Feldman as Mr Feldman was wearing a smart watch. The bigger issue is it was the last round and from what I am told the claim was made after Cameron had exhausted all other avenues of winning. Ths claim got Cameron =1st for the title.
    Honestly the rules are just stupid nowdays, and its why I will not play tournaments anymore.
    Irrespective of the rules, very poor sportsmanship.
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    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    But this statement in the article is incorrect: "Logically if a watch had batteries in it, it would become an electronic one." My torch has batteries, but it's not an 'electronic' device.
    My watch is electronic and digital, but not smart, so certainly can't receive chess signals or analyze a game. It is a time piece. There is no way I could cheat with it even if I wanted to. It would be moronic to forfeit me for wearing it. The tournament rules have become absurd and paranoid, punishing lots of innocent people to try to stop a few guilty ones.
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    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    My watch is electronic and digital, but not smart, so certainly can't receive chess signals or analyze a game. It is a time piece. There is no way I could cheat with it even if I wanted to. It would be moronic to forfeit me for wearing it. The tournament rules have become absurd and paranoid, punishing lots of innocent people to try to stop a few guilty ones.
    I have some empathy for arbiters in this regard. It may well be that your watch doesn't have those features, but others do and it may not be so easy for arbiters to tell one type from the other in all cases.

    In general smart watches extend the capabilities of a smart phone. So while the watch can't make calls on it's own, it conects to the phone that does, Eg over bluetooth, and lets you read messages etc. So if it's accepted that phones should be banned, those watches probably should be too.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    I have some empathy for arbiters in this regard. It may well be that your watch doesn't have those features, but others do and it may not be so easy for arbiters to tell one type from the other in all cases.
    In the general case I agree with you - the arbiter can't win whatever he does. However in this case, the watch was definitely analog, so unless it belonged to James Bond it probably doesn't present a threat.

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    See off topic thread for a rather indirectly related comment on this!
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    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    I have some empathy for arbiters in this regard. It may well be that your watch doesn't have those features, but others do and it may not be so easy for arbiters to tell one type from the other in all cases.
    You make a fair point. But I also hope that arbiters will rescind forfeits if it is clearly shown that the watch is innocent. A genuine analog watch with physical hands clearly qualifies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    In general smart watches extend the capabilities of a smart phone. So while the watch can't make calls on it's own, it conects to the phone that does, Eg over bluetooth, and lets you read messages etc. So if it's accepted that phones should be banned, those watches probably should be too.
    True.
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  13. #13
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    Smart watches allow notes if nothing else, so that's an excellent reason to ban them with or without the attached smartphones.

    That said, plain digital watches are usually analogue watches with a liquid crystal display (LCD), so they're about as much an electronic device as any other analogue watch i.e. not worth banning.
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