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  1. #3076
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    By definition, totalitarian states don't have to worry about political opponents or public opinion
    Yet, you can compare the current measures in Fujian and in Melbourne....so who is totalitarian?
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  2. #3077
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Yet, you can compare the current measures in Fujian and in Melbourne....so who is totalitarian?
    China shuts schools and events as Delta raises coronavirus alert level in south

    China's strict 21 day quarantine under question after new outbreak emerges

    ... Local authorities responded [to the Jiangsu outbreak in July] by placing tens of millions of residents under strict lockdown, rolling out massive testing and tracing campaigns and restricting domestic travel. By late August, health officials announced that the outbreak had been "effectively brought under control."

    While the zero-Covid strategy appeared to have worked, experts say it took longer for Chinese authorities to bring infection back to zero compared with previous flareups.

    Yanzhong Huang, a senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations, said the strategy is facing a problem of diminishing returns when dealing with the highly transmissible Delta variant.

    "It'll become more and more difficult to sustain that approach, in terms of the time, the organizational energy, and the financial and economic pains it takes to reset cases to zero," he said. "No matter how stringent the travel restrictions are, you'll continue to have cases imported and triggering outbreaks in the country." ...

  3. #3078
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    China shuts schools and events as Delta raises coronavirus alert level in south

    China's strict 21 day quarantine under question after new outbreak emerges

    ... Local authorities responded [to the Jiangsu outbreak in July] by placing tens of millions of residents under strict lockdown, rolling out massive testing and tracing campaigns and restricting domestic travel. By late August, health officials announced that the outbreak had been "effectively brought under control."

    While the zero-Covid strategy appeared to have worked, experts say it took longer for Chinese authorities to bring infection back to zero compared with previous flareups.

    Yanzhong Huang, a senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations, said the strategy is facing a problem of diminishing returns when dealing with the highly transmissible Delta variant.

    "It'll become more and more difficult to sustain that approach, in terms of the time, the organizational energy, and the financial and economic pains it takes to reset cases to zero," he said. "No matter how stringent the travel restrictions are, you'll continue to have cases imported and triggering outbreaks in the country." ...
    Are we talking about the same current Fujian lockdown that you were referring to before comparing to Melbourne?
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  4. #3079
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Are we talking about the same current Fujian lockdown that you were referring to before comparing to Melbourne?
    I wasn't referring to the Fujian lockdown. I was replying to your generic Post #3071

  5. #3080
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    ''Victoria is expected to reach 70% of the eligible population with at least one dose of vaccine by Friday, a milestone Andrews has previously said would trigger an extra hour of daily exercise and an increase in the travel restriction from 5km to 10km. The state had earlier been forecast to reach the milestone on 23 September.''
    Unbelievable - what a fuhrer!
    1 hour! so kind...and no mention of the curfew!
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  6. #3081
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ''Victoria is expected to reach 70% of the eligible population with at least one dose of vaccine by Friday, a milestone Andrews has previously said would trigger an extra hour of daily exercise and an increase in the travel restriction from 5km to 10km. The state had earlier been forecast to reach the milestone on 23 September.'' Unbelievable - what a fuhrer! 1 hour! so kind...and no mention of the curfew!
    So Andrews is a "Fuhrer"? How would you describe the Hong Kong government, which arrested and jailed people people just for commemorating the Tiananmen Square Massacre?

  7. #3082
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    Are we talking about COViD response here?
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  8. #3083
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Are we talking about COViD response here?
    And re police state response to covid: Sat protest is planned in Melbourne....and Pandemdrews will disable the public transport system to/in CBD in response....speaking of police state and Covid
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  9. #3084
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Are we talking about COViD response here?
    If we're only talking about the response to the virus: "Dr Li had tried to warn fellow medics of a disease that looked like Sars - another deadly coronavirus. But he was told by police to "stop making false comments" and was investigated for "spreading rumours"." The Chinese government's totalitarian response cost millions of lives.

  10. #3085
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    If we're only talking about the response to the virus: "Dr Li had tried to warn fellow medics of a disease that looked like Sars - another deadly coronavirus. But he was told by police to "stop making false comments" and was investigated for "spreading rumours"." The Chinese government's totalitarian response cost millions of lives.
    This is speculations just like speculations that the virus is a ''weapon developed by the Chinese military''. Btw, would virus be a weapon...it certainly works better in Australia than elsewhere....2 years later we are still living in fear.
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  11. #3086
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    This is speculations just like speculations that the virus is a ''weapon developed by the Chinese military''.
    What exactly in that report is speculation?

    And I suppose the fact that China told the WHO that the virus is not transmitted between humans is also "speculation":
    Taiwanese and U.S. officials have seized on the email to argue the WHO ignored an early warning that the coronavirus could likely be transmitted between people. In the weeks following the Dec. 31 note, the WHO echoed Chinese officials that there was “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”— even as cases began cropping up that raised suspicion of contagion.

  12. #3087
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    What exactly in that report is speculation?

    And I suppose the fact that China told the WHO that the virus is not transmitted between humans is also "speculation":
    Taiwanese and U.S. officials have seized on the email to argue the WHO ignored an early warning that the coronavirus could likely be transmitted between people. In the weeks following the Dec. 31 note, the WHO echoed Chinese officials that there was “no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission”— even as cases began cropping up that raised suspicion of contagion.
    So who is right Who or Taiwan? or China? Therea re different views - thats all!
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  13. #3088
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    Michael Baron denies lockdowns are effective but in the same breath would be double jabbed. He claims Andrews is authoritarian but he doesn't care if the hospital system is overrun?? He trusts the government to vaccinate him when the Victorian government cannot buy Pfizer on the open market because of federal control. Does he realise he has been vaccinated by Australian medical National socialism government?? Ie. Libs federally. He is confused he either believes covid is really dangerous or he believes vaccinated people cannot catch and spread covid thus rendering it harmless. And is completely unable to let go off his political biases which is the reason why we are in this predicament regardless on which side of the debate you fall into. Why does Michael Baron play politics with covid19??
    The key question Michael Baron if u believe in individual liberty so much riddle me this...Why can a wealthy person who has the means not buy Pfizer on an open market in Victoria.....let that cognitive dissonance set in...

  14. #3089
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    Quote Originally Posted by b.nancarrow View Post
    Michael Baron denies lockdowns are effective but in the same breath would be double jabbed. He claims Andrews is authoritarian but he doesn't care if the hospital system is overrun?? He trusts the government to vaccinate him when the Victorian government cannot buy Pfizer on the open market because of federal control. Does he realise he has been vaccinated by Australian medical National socialism government?? Ie. Libs federally. He is confused he either believes covid is really dangerous or he believes vaccinated people cannot catch and spread covid thus rendering it harmless. And is completely unable to let go off his political biases which is the reason why we are in this predicament regardless on which side of the debate you fall into. Why does Michael Baron play politics with covid19??
    The key question Michael Baron if u believe in individual liberty so much riddle me this...Why can a wealthy person who has the means not buy Pfizer on an open market in Victoria.....let that cognitive dissonance set in...
    I think It is good idea to understand the differences between a) not caring if hospital system is overrun and believing it will not be overrun due to numbers of people requiring medical care not being sky high 2) believing lockdowns are having a lot of negative impact that is greater than the positive impact c) If required i would happily pay for my vaccination and for vaccination of my family members ...however...vaccination is much better way of spending my taxes as some other expanditures that come to mind. I would happily buy things...just let others buy them too without me subsidising them indrectly consistently over time! .
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  15. #3090
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I think It is good idea to understand the differences between a) not caring if hospital system is overrun and believing it will not be overrun due to numbers of people requiring medical care not being sky high 2) believing lockdowns are having a lot of negative impact that is greater than the positive impact c) If required i would happily pay for my vaccination and for vaccination of my family members ...however...vaccination is much better way of spending my taxes as some other expanditures that come to mind. I would happily buy things...just let others buy them too without me subsidising them indrectly consistently over time! .
    Why are you forced to be vaccinated through a Federal Socialist National Medical system? Private Hospitals cannot vaccinate people with Vaccines bought in a free trade market place, even if they wanted to do this.. Victorian state hospitals cannot buy the vaccines privately even if they wanted to do such a thing. Harvey Norman cannot spend his own money on shipping vaccines to Australia for his company. Why? You believe in liberty Michael Baron, then why does this reality exist in Australia?

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