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  1. #3751
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chigoresov View Post
    However, data provided for 12+ when we are talking about immunising 5-11 year olds is irrelevant.
    No, it isn't irrelevant. It clearly shows that vaccines are effective at reducing severe disease in an adjacent age group. In the absence of data for the 5-11 group, which is obviously not available due to the rollout just now starting, it's the most relevant data available. As it happens my son is 9.5 y.o. and the tallest in his class, so is bigger than many 10-11 year olds, and probably as big as some 12 year olds too. I have no reason to suspect a complete reversal of effectiveness between that and the empirical evidence I have provided. If you have some reason to think that severe disease rates will magically change to be worse for vacinated people sub 12, then by all means do share it.

    Anyhow, I'm sure you are convinced you are doing the right thing for your family and community.
    Seems like I'm likely to stay convinced, as you haven't put up a skerrick of evidence to the contrary, and totally misrepresented the one thing you did post.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  2. #3752
    CC Candidate Master Chigoresov's Avatar
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    To the Scott and Desmond tag-team - I'm not doing your homework for you - perhaps you can look into the views of the independent and highly qualified JCVI for yourselves. Good luck with your future cognitive dissonance.

  3. #3753
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chigoresov View Post
    To the Scott and Desmond tag-team - I'm not doing your homework for you - perhaps you can look into the views of the independent and highly qualified JCVI for yourselves. Good luck with your future cognitive dissonance.
    I think Hillsong also need some of that cognitive dissonance that you recommend.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  4. #3754
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chigoresov View Post
    To the Scott and Desmond tag-team - I'm not doing your homework for you - perhaps you can look into the views of the independent and highly qualified JCVI for yourselves. Good luck with your future cognitive dissonance.
    You cannot seriously expect us to find the evidence for your claims. If you have evidence for your claims it is up to you to share it.

  5. #3755
    CC Candidate Master Chigoresov's Avatar
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    God help us all.

    The concept is known as risk/reward. I will admit that the Covid outcome is better for ALL age-groups after taking the vaccine (reward), if you admit that there are rare adverse events associated with said vaccines (risk).

    Ignoring important factors such as comorbidities and obesity, and only considering age as a variable, there comes a point at which experts (not silly chess players like ourselves) have determined there is no benefit to recommending vaccination. Independent panels of doctors and professors in certain countries, such as the JCVI in the UK, have baulked at recommending vaccination for the 5-11 year age-group. In Australia, ATAGI have had no such qualms.

    Taken from the https://www.health.gov.au/news/respo...ainst-covid-19 website I note "ATAGI also took into account the benefits that vaccinating this age group would have for the broader community through reduced transmission levels and greater protection for older and more vulnerable Australians."

    I find that admission incredible. In Australia (in part), we are sacrificing the health of the young to protect the old. For myself that is immoral and arse-backwards.

  6. #3756
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chigoresov View Post
    To the Scott and Desmond tag-team - I'm not doing your homework for you - perhaps you can look into the views of the independent and highly qualified JCVI for yourselves. Good luck with your future cognitive dissonance.
    Sounds ominous. Should I be reading your posts with the theme from The Twilight Zone playing in the background?

    Taken from the https://www.health.gov.au/news/respo...ainst-covid-19 website I note "ATAGI also took into account the benefits that vaccinating this age group would have for the broader community through reduced transmission levels and greater protection for older and more vulnerable Australians."
    Ancillary benefits are a nice bonus but not the main game. From the same article:

    The TGAís provisional approval of the Pfizer vaccine for 5 to 11-year-olds was based on an evaluation of available data to support its safety and efficacy among this age group.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  7. #3757
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    Listening to Queensland Premier now as she is doing one of those ''live'' shows. She is talking about ''big drive to urgently get Indigenous communities vaccinated''.
    I was under the impression that majority of the people have vaccinated already and there have been facilities for months...what is that ''big drive'' for now?

    P.S. in WA unvaccinated can not enter bottleshops, entertainment venues etc. Just a hint for the Queensland Premier what could be done .
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  8. #3758
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    P.S. in WA unvaccinated can not enter bottleshops, entertainment venues etc. Just a hint for the Queensland Premier what could be done .
    QLD already has such restrictions on entertainment. Not sure about alcohol, I presume they are just treated as any other retail.

    https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/covi...ent-venues/qld
    Current restrictions
    Only vaccinated staff and patrons, and those with a medical exemption, will be allowed to enter:

    • indoor entertainment venues such as nightclubs, live music venues, karaoke bars, concerts, theatres or cinemas and casinos
    • outdoor entertainment activities such as sporting stadiums or theme parks
    • festivals — either indoor or outdoor — such as musical, folk or arts festivals
    • activities — either indoor or outdoor — such as convention centres and showgrounds
    • Queensland Government owned galleries, museums or libraries

    Customers will need to show proof of vaccination or a medical exemption to enter these venues.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  9. #3759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    QLD already has such restrictions on entertainment. Not sure about alcohol, I presume they are just treated as any other retail.

    https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/covi...ent-venues/qld
    Current restrictions
    Only vaccinated staff and patrons, and those with a medical exemption, will be allowed to enter:

    • indoor entertainment venues such as nightclubs, live music venues, karaoke bars, concerts, theatres or cinemas and casinos
    • outdoor entertainment activities such as sporting stadiums or theme parks
    • festivals — either indoor or outdoor — such as musical, folk or arts festivals
    • activities — either indoor or outdoor — such as convention centres and showgrounds
    • Queensland Government owned galleries, museums or libraries

    Customers will need to show proof of vaccination or a medical exemption to enter these venues.
    May be shall try it with alcohol? It may turn some of the currently unvaccinated into vaccination advocates?
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  10. #3760
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    May be shall try it with alcohol? It may turn some of the currently unvaccinated into vaccination advocates?
    I'm glad to see you supporting vaccine mandates.

    But there is an even better solution - just follow the example of Alex Hawke and deport anyone who encourages anti-vaxxers:

    They [Novak Djokovic’s lawyers] say that the Immigration Minister agrees that Novak Djokovic poses a negligible risk to the public, has a medical reason why he can’t get vaccinated, is a person of good standing and has followed other requirements.

    His lawyer Nick Wood says the reason for Djokovic’s visa cancellation is that his presence in Melbourne would "excite" the anti-vaxxer community.

  11. #3761
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    May be shall try it with alcohol? It may turn some of the currently unvaccinated into vaccination advocates?
    Sure we can, doesn't bother me, but why single out Qld? Vic doesn't have that law does it? Seems Qlders are getting vaxxed as fast as Scotty for Marketing's inept vaccine rollout allows us to. Over 91.5% now with at least 1 dose.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  12. #3762
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    Sure we can, doesn't bother me, but why single out Qld? Vic doesn't have that law does it? Seems Qlders are getting vaxxed as fast as Scotty for Marketing's inept vaccine rollout allows us to. Over 91.5% now with at least 1 dose.
    There are indigenous communities where vaccination rates are much lower than that. Vaccination is certainly an option but looks like many are not taking it in certain communities. I do not think its Morrison fault if they do not. Nor state authorities fault for this matter.
    Old article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-...ourg/100731966
    but unless vaccination rate improved dramatically over last fortnight the problem remains.
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  13. #3763
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    There are indigenous communities where vaccination rates are much lower than that. Vaccination is certainly an option but looks like many are not taking it in certain communities. I do not think its Morrison fault if they do not. Nor state authorities fault for this matter.
    Old article: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-...ourg/100731966
    but unless vaccination rate improved dramatically over last fortnight the problem remains.
    So whose 'fault' is this: "Double-dose vaccination rates among people with disability may be as low as 50% in some regional and remote local government areas, according to leaked federal Department of Health data." ?

  14. #3764
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So whose 'fault' is this: "Double-dose vaccination rates among people with disability may be as low as 50% in some regional and remote local government areas, according to leaked federal Department of Health data." ?
    Obviously those disabled people who cannot leave their home and need a vaccine delived to home are totally responsible for their lack of vaccination.

  15. #3765
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So whose 'fault' is this: "Double-dose vaccination rates among people with disability may be as low as 50% in some regional and remote local government areas, according to leaked federal Department of Health data." ?
    Are we talking about
    a) disabled vaccination
    b) indigenous vaccination (community like any other)
    or c) carers? If people are disabled and cared for within their own community/dedicated providers?
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