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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    The proposed new statutes circulated in July would eliminate proxies completely:

    "16.4 Representation or voting by proxy is never allowed, for any FIDE organ."
    Here is something that they have not considered perhaps: What happens when a Federation has a Delegate for FIDE and a Delegate for Continental and in the event one of the Delegates cannot be represented at their respective meetings, are they allowed to provide a proxy to the other Delegate to represent them or would not be allowed at all what so ever?

    What I mean by this is for example and this is only an example AND NOT THE VIEWS OF ACF OR ENDORSEMENT FROM THE ACF but lets say
    I was the Delegate at a Continental level and Kevin Bonham was Delegate at FIDE level. For some reason I could not make it, would I be allowed to give my proxy to Kevin to represent me at the Continental level at all?

    lost
    Last edited by lost; 26-11-2019 at 08:36 PM.

  2. #17
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Here is something that they have not considered perhaps: What happens when a Federation has a Delegate for FIDE and a Delegate for Continental and in the event one of the Delegates cannot be represented at their respective meetings, are they allowed to provide a proxy to the other Delegate to represent them or would not be allowed at all what so ever?
    Under the proposed new Charter if the FIDE Delegate is unavailable for the General Assembly they can be replaced at short notice only by the federation's President. (Or if a federation knew well in advance their delegate was unavailable they could temporarily appoint a different person as FIDE Delegate). The new Charter doesn't attempt to regulate who Continental Associations accept as a representative of a federation, so presumably that would be a matter for the Continents.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Under the proposed new Charter if the FIDE Delegate is unavailable for the General Assembly they can be replaced at short notice only by the federation's President. (Or if a federation knew well in advance their delegate was unavailable they could temporarily appoint a different person as FIDE Delegate). The new Charter doesn't attempt to regulate who Continental Associations accept as a representative of a federation, so presumably that would be a matter for the Continents.
    Yes, the Federation's President would be the normal way to go about it but what happens if the President couldn't go due to extreme short notice and flights were unavailable for whatever reason. Could the other Delegate be able to represent the Federation under the proposed new law?

    The proposed new statutes circulated in July would eliminate proxies completely:

    "16.4 Representation or voting by proxy is never allowed, for any FIDE organ."

  4. #19
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Yes, the Federation's President would be the normal way to go about it but what happens if the President couldn't go due to extreme short notice and flights were unavailable for whatever reason. Could the other Delegate be able to represent the Federation under the proposed new law?
    Not unless the official Delegate was changed in time. I do remember this getting discussed a fair bit at the last Congress, but don't remember at what meetings. If a federation doesn't make sure it appoints a delegate who will be available in time, and then neither the delegate nor the President are available, tough. The cost of getting rid of proxies is that sometimes a federation might not be represented.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Not unless the official Delegate was changed in time. I do remember this getting discussed a fair bit at the last Congress, but don't remember at what meetings. If a federation doesn't make sure it appoints a delegate who will be available in time, and then neither the delegate nor the President are available, tough. The cost of getting rid of proxies is that sometimes a federation might not be represented.
    A case that could quite easily happen. Say for example a Federation has sent there Delegate to Khanty for the Congress, they had to apply for a visa in advance and do not come from a visa free country. Delegate is there, Continental Delegate is there for there and on the day of the Congress starting the Delegate is hospitalised and willnot be out of hospital for 10 days. Can the Continental Delegate for that Federation be able to represent assuming the President of the Federation is not there?

    This is a likely scenario that can happen? FIDE should not penalise Federation Delegates in this matter. What is your view on this?

    lost
    Last edited by lost; 27-11-2019 at 12:22 AM.

  6. #21
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Well for starters how common is it that a federation has a Continental Delegate who isn't also their FIDE Delegate?

    Under the current rules the FIDE Delegate can only reassign their GA vote to their President - and they can't even do that within the final few days before the GA starts:

    Up to 17.00 h three days before the opening of the General Assembly, a delegate included in the list published pursuant to Section (3) above may, if no valid proxy of his federation has been assigned to the delegate of another federation, surrender the voting power of his federation in favour of the President of that federation upon written notice to the FIDE Secretariat. This rule does not apply to proxies received by the delegate. The FIDE Secretariat shall immediately submit written notices received pursuant to this Section (8) to the Electoral Commission, which shall verify them in time to allow the FIDE Secretariat to comply with the deadline set forth in Section (10) below.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Well for starters how common is it that a federation has a Continental Delegate who isn't also their FIDE Delegate?

    Under the current rules the FIDE Delegate can only reassign their GA vote to their President - and they can't even do that within the final few days before the GA starts:

    Up to 17.00 h three days before the opening of the General Assembly, a delegate included in the list published pursuant to Section (3) above may, if no valid proxy of his federation has been assigned to the delegate of another federation, surrender the voting power of his federation in favour of the President of that federation upon written notice to the FIDE Secretariat. This rule does not apply to proxies received by the delegate. The FIDE Secretariat shall immediately submit written notices received pursuant to this Section (8) to the Electoral Commission, which shall verify them in time to allow the FIDE Secretariat to comply with the deadline set forth in Section (10) below.
    Well for starters how common is it that a federation has a Continental Delegate who isn't also their FIDE Delegate?
    Well not common at all but Israel and Georgia have separate Delegates for the respective bodies at least. In the event where one was hospitalised or at extreme dies, and the President is not in the country at the time, would the other Delegate be allowed to represent the Federation. I know in normal procedures under the Statutes this could not happen and you are right here, but we must take into account all reasonable scenarios that could happen.

    Lets go back to the 2014 Olympiad and one player died during his game. This was the first time such a case happened and there was no precedent to go on. What would happen for a Delegate. This is what is very unclear to me at the moment and nothing is actually discussed. I also agree with you that it is highly unlikely something insane is going to happen but in the rare case, do you think they would be allowed to represent the Federation at all. Would you personally allow it or would you be against it?

    lost

  8. #23
    Premium Member ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Lets go back to the 2014 Olympiad and one player died during his game.
    lost
    A bit irrelevant but ...
    Hi Lost
    of course you are referring to the Swiss-born CM Kurt Meier, playing on board two for the Seychelles!
    I was in Bucharest, Romania when that happened (playing friendly games in the park) when we were informed about that sad incident
    Not long after a new comer to the benches in front of the Fallen Chess Player monument (right across the road from the main Railway Station (North Bucharest)
    informed us that not one but two chess players died at the same day - the other being Alisher Anarkulov from Uzbekistan who was found dead in his hotel room!
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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    A bit irrelevant but ...
    Hi Lost
    of course you are referring to the Swiss-born CM Kurt Meier, playing on board two for the Seychelles!
    I was in Bucharest, Romania when that happened (playing friendly games in the park) when we were informed about that sad incident
    Not long after a new comer to the benches in front of the Fallen Chess Player monument (right across the road from the main Railway Station (North Bucharest)
    informed us that not one but two chess players died at the same day - the other being Alisher Anarkulov from Uzbekistan who was found dead in his hotel room!
    Hi ER,

    I can see your point on saying a bit irrelevant but there is a correlation in the sense of what write about.

    As a person who was present at the time of CM Kurt Meier, dying at the board, it was a very dramatic situation and I should remind people that Vice President Anastasia Sorokina was the Sector Arbiter. A very sad case indeed. As for Alisher Anarkulov of Uzbekistan, he died in his room and the President of the ICCD had left a day earlier from Norway. It was Thomas Luther if I am not mistaken who had to go and identify him in such circumstances.

    Getting back to the topic of FIDE Congress, what would happen if someone suddenly died while in attendance and the country they were in required a visa. Th President could not get a visa in time to attend the Congress and if there is a Delegate representing the Continental Assembly, can they be able to represent the country at the FIDE Congress?

    lost

  10. #25
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    In the event where one was hospitalised or at extreme dies, and the President is not in the country at the time, would the other Delegate be allowed to represent the Federation.
    If it's uncommon that a federation has two Delegates (one to FIDE, one to Continent) then allowing a Federation to replace their FIDE Delegate with their Continental Delegate would advantage those Federations that have two Delegates over those that don't.

    I suspect there are good reasons, that are based in practical experience, why the current rules on replacing Delegates at short notice close to voting time are the way they are, so I wouldn't support changing them unless convinced it was the right thing to do after listening to a thorough debate on the matter.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    If it's uncommon that a federation has two Delegates (one to FIDE, one to Continent) then allowing a Federation to replace their FIDE Delegate with their Continental Delegate would advantage those Federations that have two Delegates over those that don't.

    I suspect there are good reasons, that are based in practical experience, why the current rules on replacing Delegates at short notice close to voting time are the way they are, so I wouldn't support changing them unless convinced it was the right thing to do after listening to a thorough debate on the matter.
    There would definitely be good reasons for why you cannot change Delegates at such short time but I mean only in extreme cases a person is in hospital or has died would you allow the other Delegate to represent to the Federation. I would not support it if it was simply I cannot be bothered attending but I would support if it is a person is in hospital or has died. They are the only reasons.

    lost

  12. #27
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    The first FIDE Congress was held in 1924.
    They have been held every year since then, except for 1940-1945.
    Still nothing official on whether this year's is actually on or off.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    The first FIDE Congress was held in 1924.
    They have been held every year since then, except for 1940-1945.
    Still nothing official on whether this year's is actually on or off.
    Likely now to be held next year but has there being any year where 2 Congress' have been held?

    lost

  14. #29
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Likely now to be held next year but has there being any year where 2 Congress' have been held?
    No, that's never happened before. But I don't know whether there might, for instance, have at some time been a Congress and a separate Extraordinary General Assembly in the same year.

  15. #30
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    FIDE announcement: https://fide.com/news/232

    Dear members of the chess community,

    The Presidential Board made a final decision about the place and dates of an Extraordinary General Assembly and FIDE Congress. In response to a number of requests from delegates, and taking into account the opinion of the Chairman of the Constitutional Commission, Mr. Rivello, the Board scheduled the Assembly on February 26-29 in Dubai (UAE). The final agenda will be published no later than one month before the date of the meeting, according to the Statutes.

    Twitter announcement:

    In response to a number of requests from delegates, and taking into account the opinion of the Chairman of the Constitutional Commission, Mr. Rivello, the Presidential Board has scheduled a General Assembly and the FIDE Congress on February 26-29 in Dubai:
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 30-11-2019 at 12:39 AM.

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