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  1. #1
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    Submitting Ratings for Teams Events using Vega

    I have heard rating results can only be submitted as a Vega file.
    Is this correct?

    I am having some difficulties with using Vega for a teams event. No doubt, it is better for tournaments.

    There is a pool of about 100 players for the B section and quite a few in the A section.

    In some parts of Vega when lists of players are displayed there is an option to display players in different orders,
    e.g. by name. When pairing players there is none. This makes pairing players way slower than need be.

    If you want to add a new pairing, sometimes results are filled incorrectly or for a number of reasons,
    all the pairings get wiped out and have to be redone.

    When adding a player, sometimes it puts in a blank name, which is difficult to remove.

    When teams have too few players, forfeits are complicated, because Vega expects two players. I created a work around by using dummy players, but there is trouble when these run out.

    There are a host of other issues. All in all, I would find it much quicker to put the pairings and results in a spreadsheet or text file.

    Is that possible?
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  2. #2
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    I have heard rating results can only be submitted as a Vega file.
    Is this correct?
    It is mostly correct.
    Results should be submitted using Vega or Orion.
    For the time being, results can also be submitted using Swiss Perfect but I intended to phase that out sometime next year as Swiss Perfect is long past it's use by date and does not and does not conform to the FIDE Swiss Pairing rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    I am having some difficulties with using Vega for a teams event. No doubt, it is better for tournaments.
    Vega is designed to be used for the pairing of tournaments involving individuals and not for team tournaments.
    For team tournaments use Orion.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    There is a pool of about 100 players for the B section and quite a few in the A section.

    In some parts of Vega when lists of players are displayed there is an option to display players in different orders,
    e.g. by name. When pairing players there is none. This makes pairing players way slower than need be.
    That is because as noted above Vega isn't intended to be used for team tournaments.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    If you want to add a new pairing, sometimes results are filled incorrectly or for a number of reasons,
    all the pairings get wiped out and have to be redone.
    This sounds like it is due to user mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    When adding a player, sometimes it puts in a blank name, which is difficult to remove.
    What version of Vega are you using?

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    When teams have too few players, forfeits are complicated, because Vega expects two players. I created a work around by using dummy players, but there is trouble when these run out.

    There are a host of other issues. All in all, I would find it much quicker to put the pairings and results in a spreadsheet or text file.

    Is that possible?
    No.

    I note that in recent years the results for the SA Pennants events have been submitted using Vega.
    How did the previous organiser/arbiter manage it?

    As noted above results for rating should be submitted using Vega, Orion or even Swiss Perfect, however even if you using them you cannot submit a tournament with dummy players.

    For team events you should use Orion which can be downloaded from the Vega website.
    I can provide a serial code for Orion for use by SACA upon a request via their Vega representative William Anderson-Smith.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the prompt reply.

    Most likely its the latest version of Vega.

    I have never heard of Orion, however I will check it out for future events.

    This sounds like it is due to user mistake.
    It might sound like but its not. Vega is very poor for manual pairings, for many reasons.

    In any case a user error should not cause all results to be wiped out without warning. This is a bug.

    I note that in recent years the results for the SA Pennants events have been submitted using Vega.
    How did the previous organiser/arbiter manage it?
    By having similar problems to what we have been having now. Results will be submitted with Vega, but taking much longer to process than need be.
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  4. #4
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    Thanks for the prompt reply.

    Most likely its the latest version of Vega.
    Rather than make that assumption, perhaps you can check the version and advise.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    I have never heard of Orion, however I will check it out for future events.

    It might sound like but its not. Vega is very poor for manual pairings, for many reasons.
    I disagree.

    The aim of using a pairing program (especially one designed for tournaments involving individual players and not teams) is to automatically generate pairings and not for arbiters to be manually entering pairings for 10, 20 or 50 board multiple round matches.
    The use of the manual pairing function is there to allow the arbiter to change the automatically generated pairings if required e.g re-paring due to players not turning up, pairing late entrants to the tournament.

    However if the arbiter is going to use the program in a manner unintended by the author then when doing manual pairings for 30-50 boards they should:
    a) Firstly mark all players who are not playing in that round as unavailable using set status for the player.
    b) Determine the actual board pairings for all players. if a the player in the match does not have an opponent due to lack of players in the opposing team then mark the player as unavailable using set status for the player. Do not create dummy players.
    c) Only now select Manual pairing and manually pair all board pairings as determined in step b. Once completed click Done (keep current colours).
    d) In the round manager window assign a full point bye to all players in step b above who did not have an opponent.
    e) If a pairing needs to be changed for any reason e.g. a player is to be added and will be paired against a player in step d who was assigned a full point bye. (Do this by adding the new player to the tournament, changing the player given a full point bye to a zero point bye, then go to manual pairings, make the two players available and then pair them).
    f) Once the round is complete enter the results.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    In any case a user error should not cause all results to be wiped out without warning. This is a bug.
    Yes if the arbiter is going to be changing pairings once results have started to be entered the program should warn them that all results for the round will be lost. I will raise this with the author.

    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    By having similar problems to what we have been having now. Results will be submitted with Vega, but taking much longer to process than need be.
    It's interesting that SACA has been submitting the Pennants using Vega since December 2017 and have not previously mentioned any issues.

    Ultimately using Vega to do manual pairings for team events is like using a hammer to hammer a screw into a piece of wood rather than using screwdriver. It may well be able to be done but it really is not fit for purpose.
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  5. #5
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    Vega Team is quite good, and less prone to malfunctions than Orion.
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  6. #6
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    One feature of Vega I like is the ability to easily create a database file of regular club players. I make that my Database 3, then by entering ****** I get all players listed, select them all and hey presto. Weirdly, I can't manually enter ******, but I can enter*** and then copy/paste to get my 6*s (if that makes sense). It makes entering a bunch of regulars very easy.
    If anyone isn't sure how to create that database, just open a tournament that has all your regulars playing (or create a dummy tournament), then file/export/all players works for me. Then set DB / archive Vega/ and go to your list of players to import.

    Hope this helps some DOPs.

  7. #7
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig_Hall View Post
    Vega Team is quite good, and less prone to malfunctions than Orion.
    Actually VegaTeam has a number of issues.
    Don't use it if you want your tournaments ACF/FIDE rated.
    Orion is essentially its replacement and the latest version 1.0 works well.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos View Post
    It is mostly correct. Results should be submitted using Vega or Orion. For the time being, results can also be submitted using Swiss Perfect but I intended to phase that out sometime next year as Swiss Perfect is long past it's use by date and does not and does not conform to the FIDE Swiss Pairing rules.
    So results from Swiss Perfect will not be accepted for ACF rating after next year?

  9. #9
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So results from Swiss Perfect will not be accepted for ACF rating after next year?
    Thats the intention.
    There is no good reason to continue using a program that doesn’t conform to the FIDE pairing rules.
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