Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 36
  1. #16
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The island
    Posts
    14,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    It is interesting that IA Shaun Press has just made a blog post regarding this exact type of subject.

    His commentary is as follows:
    Very good commentary, IMO.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA (formerly Brisbane, and before that Wellington, NZ)
    Posts
    21,211
    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Come off it. You're seriously going to kick someone out of the competition for using their time? If someone using their time causes a bad playing environment, organisers should choose a different time control or organise their round start times better. The opponent used almost as much time too, maybe you want to kick him out as well.

    Arbiter acting in the best interests of the competition might include things like starting (or at least pairing) the next round if there's an exceptionally long game still going (Eg very high number of moves with long increment), assuming a result therein. He should not do so while writing an assumed result of the ongoing game at the board where it is being played. The game in question didn't seem to be particularly long.
    I was continuing the argument in:

    Quote Originally Posted by Keong Ang View Post
    If this incident had happened in an earlier round, the game would have been forcibly ended at least an hour earlier with expulsion of offending player from event. Such unsporting behaviour ruins the chess event for everyone. We had gone far beyond expected tolerance for this sort of behaviour in this case.
    That is, explaining why it might have been justifiable to expel in earlier rounds but not in the last round, although the behaviour was equally unsporting regardless of the round.

    As for the rest of your post, it wasn't the time alone that was unsporting, because no one doubts that one has a right to use one's thinking time. The problem was stalling for time when there was only one legal move available.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA (formerly Brisbane, and before that Wellington, NZ)
    Posts
    21,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    [Citing IA Shaun Press]
    As a tournament arbiter, this has happened on occasion, and I've been asked whether I can do anything. I certainly can't make the player move or resign, but I can make sure they follow the rules while the game is still in progress. The one rule that I do insist upon in this situation is that they must remain at the board during their move. I also forbid them from talking to anyone, or acting in a distracting manner. Interestingly, when I have done this, resignation usually occurs quite quickly.

    That rule is a good one. From the photos, it does seem that this stalling player was at the board.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  4. #19
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA (formerly Brisbane, and before that Wellington, NZ)
    Posts
    21,211
    Pardon the interruption, but it's worth mentioning that this tournament was the Merv Morrison Memorial, and Brodie crossed the ditch to add to his recent tournament winning streak. He was half a point behind IM Paul Garbett going into their last round game, and Brodie won to overtake Garbett for first.

    OK, carry on.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    21,327
    If there were open tribunals or court cases on chess issues it would be terrific publicity. My mother only followed cricket after that underarm bowling controversy. And she hated those big dark West Indies bashing up the Aussies.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Penrith, NSW
    Posts
    9,211
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Pardon the interruption, but it's worth mentioning that this tournament was the Merv Morrison Memorial, and Brodie crossed the ditch to add to his recent tournament winning streak. He was half a point behind IM Paul Garbett going into their last round game, and Brodie won to overtake Garbett for first.

    OK, carry on.
    Thanks for the link , Jono. And we'll done once again, Brodie!
    Last edited by Adamski; 01-11-2019 at 10:11 PM.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  7. #22
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,708
    Note that under the FIDE Laws the player having the move is only strictly required to remain in the playing area (except if the arbiter permits otherwise). The playing area is the room(s) where the games are being played. However a player who keeps getting up and going walkies on their move when they should be thinking might be deemed to be a distraction. Making a player who is obviously stalling remain in their seat can also be considered as a measure in the interests of the competition.

    I do wonder if FIDE should have a specific anti-stalling rule, or if it would be too hard to phrase and implement without catching out some players who were legitimately taking their time.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  8. #23
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The island
    Posts
    14,457
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    I was continuing the argument in:



    That is, explaining why it might have been justifiable to expel in earlier rounds but not in the last round, although the behaviour was equally unsporting regardless of the round.

    As for the rest of your post, it wasn't the time alone that was unsporting, because no one doubts that one has a right to use one's thinking time. The problem was stalling for time when there was only one legal move available.
    Not so, the only problem was the time.

    Most of the stalling was not done on the last move. As per opening post of the thread, 80 mins were spent on a single move earlier, at the last position it was just a few.
    So what's your excuse? For running like the devil's chasing you?

    See you in another life, brotha.

  9. #24
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wynyard,Tas
    Posts
    2,467
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I do wonder if FIDE should have a specific anti-stalling rule, or if it would be too hard to phrase and implement without catching out some players who were legitimately taking their time.
    I think this would be used so rarely as not to be worthwhile, or applied too commonly as a result of false positives. What might appear to be "stalling" is often a legitimate tactic, for instance to keep an opponent squirming in time trouble. Other than extreme cases it would need an arbiter to be an experienced player to exercise sound judgement, given the difficulty of producing a workable definition. A better sanction is to not accept an offender's entry next time.

    $100 in NZ is a bit less than here but it does sound a little excessive for the purpose of discouraging frivolous appeals. It seems to err on the side of intimidating players away from legitimate or marginal appeals, especially when a tournament official appears to be publicly taunting potential appellants about it.

    On that subject, I think if I were on the committee I would have to rule that no laws had been broken and the arbiter had exceeded his authority in inserting himself into the game to the extent of discussing analysis with a player and effectively confirming its accuracy, unless there is some sort of defence based on it being consistent with normal practice in that part of the world or some sort of supplementary tournament conditions. However I would also rule that the result should stand as it probably wasn't affected by the incident, though only because of the triviality of the position.

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    7,862
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Note that under the FIDE Laws the player having the move is only strictly required to remain in the playing area (except if the arbiter permits otherwise). The playing area is the room(s) where the games are being played. However a player who keeps getting up and going walkies on their move when they should be thinking might be deemed to be a distraction. Making a player who is obviously stalling remain in their seat can also be considered as a measure in the interests of the competition. I do wonder if FIDE should have a specific anti-stalling rule, or if it would be too hard to phrase and implement without catching out some players who were legitimately taking their time.
    Wouldn't requiring players not to leave the board when it's their move, without the permission of the arbiter, be a workable rule?

  11. #26
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    40,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Wouldn't requiring players not to leave the board when it's their move, without the permission of the arbiter, be a workable rule?
    It could be a lot more work for the arbiter at times. When players are competing for a prize in the final rounds of a tournament it's fairly common for the player on the move to check the results or what is going on on an adjacent board because that knowledge can affect their decision (especially if they have been offered a draw).
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  12. #27
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wynyard,Tas
    Posts
    2,467
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    It could be a lot more work for the arbiter at times. When players are competing for a prize in the final rounds of a tournament it's fairly common for the player on the move to check the results or what is going on on an adjacent board because that knowledge can affect their decision (especially if they have been offered a draw).
    You'd also need a further rule that a player must return to their seat when their opponent moves, otherwise it can be circumvented by getting up immediately after moving. So arbiters not only have to run around finding players but brandish stopwatches to see how quickly they got back. All in all a lot of mucking about for something that happens rarely and is hardly the end of the world - after all, the player still loses, unlike gamesmanship designed to gain an advantage.

    Of course it does happen; there was an instance in an interstate game I played a few years back (I just ignored it and pretended I hadn't noticed). It should however be pointed out that the offence here was not taking a break to rest or to look at other games, it wasn't even wasting time. It was making it obvious that he was wasting time. We know from an earlier post that he hadn't done this in an earlier round., which raises the question of whether he was asked why he was doing it now.

  13. #28
    CC Candidate Master slyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    80
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    That rule is a good one. From the photos, it does seem that this stalling player was at the board.
    That was not the case. When it was first his move he wandered around for several minutes looking at other games. He was at the board (from memory) for at least the last 30 minutes, pretty much continuously though.

  14. #29
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Melbourne - Australia
    Posts
    13,635
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Good point about appeals fee.
    of course, just imagine a junior, and they constitute a very respectable percentage - if not the majority of participants in some cases these days,
    having to cough up $100 for an appeal when they feel unjustly done! Let alone those whom we all know still frequent chess events as
    participants, who wouldn't know what a $100 appeal fee looks like even if it hit them on the head!
    After all maybe financially hard done by chess players should be excluded from the cashless dole payments!
    Last edited by ER; 01-11-2019 at 05:57 PM.
    https://www.nswca.org.au/index.php
    ACF 3118316
    FIDE 3201457

    From this day (13-11-20) onwards, I will only be posting, shouting and reading none other than chess related posts.
    Fully vaccinated since October, 21, 2021

  15. #30
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Melbourne - Australia
    Posts
    13,635
    Quote Originally Posted by slyall View Post
    He was at the board (from memory) for at least the last 30 minutes, pretty much continuously though.
    He looks sad!
    https://www.nswca.org.au/index.php
    ACF 3118316
    FIDE 3201457

    From this day (13-11-20) onwards, I will only be posting, shouting and reading none other than chess related posts.
    Fully vaccinated since October, 21, 2021

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •