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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    2019 FIDE World Fischer Random Chess Championship

    Nepo is the first through the cast of thousands to qualify to QF stage 1.
    https://www.frchess.com/
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    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Thanks for letting us know about this.

    I see it's a silly knockout format. Nakamura and Caruana are seeded into the quarterfinals, while Carlsen is seeded into the semifinals.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Thanks for letting us know about this.

    I see it's a silly knockout format. Nakamura and Caruana are seeded into the quarterfinals, while Carlsen is seeded into the semifinals.
    Yes that's right, the early qualifying stage was open to any punter on chess.com, titled players got seeded in later. Nepo was very critical of the format in his post-game interview v Harikrishna, particularly of why Naka got a wildcard and he didn't. I can see his point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Yes that's right, the early qualifying stage was open to any punter on chess.com, titled players got seeded in later. Nepo was very critical of the format in his post-game interview v Harikrishna, particularly of why Naka got a wildcard and he didn't. I can see his point.
    If shuffle chess is supposed to be better than the real thing it seems inconsistent to seed by real ratings and titles at all. Presumably the point of seeding Fabi and Naka is to maintain American interest for commercial reasons - the prize fund is quite substantial so the sponsors wouldn't want three people and a dog following it.

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    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    If shuffle chess is supposed to be better than the real thing it seems inconsistent to seed by real ratings and titles at all. Presumably the point of seeding Fabi and Naka is to maintain American interest for commercial reasons - the prize fund is quite substantial so the sponsors wouldn't want three people and a dog following it.
    So I think that the official reason was not ratings par se but the previous results of WC matches (FR and standard). Though having a couple of Americans probably doesn't hurt, as you say.

    The Quarterfinals will be a three-day event. Hikaru Nakamura as former FR champion, and Fabiano Caruana, as previous classical chess title challenger, join the six qualifiers at this stage. ...

    3.8. Semifinals and Finals:
    Three winners from Quarterfinals and current champion, Magnus Carlsen
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  6. #6
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    All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Thanks for letting us know about this.

    I see it's a silly knockout format. Nakamura and Caruana are seeded into the quarterfinals, while Carlsen is seeded into the semifinals.
    This is a nonsense format. All players need to start equal. This is a handicap system with these 3 having an advantage.

    Since when does skill in Fischer Random equate exactly to chess rating?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    This is a nonsense format. All players need to start equal. This is a handicap system with these 3 having an advantage.

    Since when does skill in Fischer Random equate exactly to chess rating?
    The format has been selected in order to ensure that the top players do not reject invitation to play. This way, they can assure solid standing/ good prize money
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  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FM_Bill View Post
    This is a nonsense format. All players need to start equal. This is a handicap system with these 3 having an advantage.

    Since when does skill in Fischer Random equate exactly to chess rating?
    I would expect performance in C960 to collerate extremely well with chess rating. But that's not what the seedings were about.
    Last edited by road runner; 28-08-2019 at 10:36 PM.
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    On a related topic, Mr Sinquefield's people are staging some shuffle chess after his Cup, with Kasparov participating vs Caruana. Curiously it will be called Chess 9LX, presumably because they don't know the Roman numerals for 900.

    https://www.uschesschamps.com/2019-c...s-9LX/overview

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    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    latest info here

    https://www.fide.com/news/131

    official site here

    https://www.frchess.com/
    Last edited by ER; 03-10-2019 at 12:04 AM.
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    https://aus2020.chesschamp.net/

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    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ER View Post
    latest info here

    https://www.fide.com/news/131

    official site here

    https://www.frchess.com/
    Yes, the quaterfinals are this week featuring:

    Hikaru Nakamura (seeded)
    Fabiano Caruana (seeded)
    Ian Nepomniachtchi
    Alireza Firouzja
    Vidit Gijrathi
    Peter Svidler
    Vladimir Fedoseev
    Wesley So

    And Carlsen will join in the next stage.
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  12. #12
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    Caruana, Nepo and So through to join Carlsen in the Semi's.
    Naka actually beat So on day 1, but So got a second chance and knocked Svidler out to progress.
    Naka was then randomly paired against Caruana, so only 1 of the seeds could progress as it turned out.
    Weird format.
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    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    What a completely ridiculous format. I really could not care less what the stated reasons from the organisers are for seeding players through. With Chess960 being rather in its infancy, in terms of being played 'regularly' in terms of tournaments, then for a world championship, everyone should start from round one.

    With no rating system at this point in time, I could understand that the classical rating list (for that time control being used) to seed the players. As more Chess960 tournaments are held, a new rating system for chess960 could be created and then tournaments are seeded based on that rating list.

    But having systems like this just makes the tournament bs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    What a completely ridiculous format. I really could not care less what the stated reasons from the organisers are for seeding players through. With Chess960 being rather in its infancy, in terms of being played 'regularly' in terms of tournaments, then for a world championship, everyone should start from round one.

    With no rating system at this point in time, I could understand that the classical rating list (for that time control being used) to seed the players. As more Chess960 tournaments are held, a new rating system for chess960 could be created and then tournaments are seeded based on that rating list.

    But having systems like this just makes the tournament bs.
    I think there is definitely a case for seeding strong players Eg IM/GM, out of the great unwashed round. I'd view that as first round is basically like qualifying tournaments in tennis.

    If the results in this tournament tell us anything, it is that C960 results follow chess ratings extremely closely.

    I think the quaterfinals draw was pretty weird, because to accommodate Carlsen entering at the semi's you had to go from 8 players down to 3. This was the full QF draw:

    Quarterfinals, Day 1 Results:

    Wesley So – Hikaru Nakamura 3:9
    Vladimir Fedoseev – Vidit Gujrathi 8:4
    Peter Svidler – Fabiano Caruana 5:7
    Ian Nepomniachtchi – Alireza Firouzja 7:6 (Nepomniachtchi won Armageddon game with Black)

    Winners (in bold) qualify for Quarterfinals, Day 3 directly.

    Losers' bracket (Day 2, Saturday):

    Vidit Gujrathi - Alireza Firouzja 4.5 : 7.5
    Wesley So - Peter Svidler 6.5:5.5
    Vidit Gujrathi & Peter Svidler are eliminated

    Quarterfinals, Day 3 Results:

    Vladimir Fedoseev - Wesley So 5:7
    Hikaru Nakamura - Fabiano Caruana 1.5:6.5
    Ian Nepomniachtchi – Alireza Firouzja 6.5:3.5
    I think day 1 and 2 is fine. Day 3 though, the draw was just random. 2 of the day 1 winners had to face off and one was necessarily going to be knocked out. Which to me is not ideal.

    I quite like the idea of double knockout formats, I think they work well. I played in one recently (not for chess). Usually the losers go into "losers draw" and if they lose again they are out, but if they keep winning they can keep going. But you have to give all players the second chance. Here Naka didn't get it, so it's not really fair on him.

    Having said that, you could argue Naka's seeding gave him an unfair berth to begin with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    I quite like the idea of double knockout formats, I think they work well. I played in one recently (not for chess). Usually the losers go into "losers draw" and if they lose again they are out, but if they keep winning they can keep going.
    The Swiss system does the same thing - losers are knocked down rather than out and can re-ascend - but in a more flexible and seamless manner. For instance it isn't subject to shoehorning the number of competitors into a pairing tree, and draws aren't an issue.

    On the other hand players in a Swiss are effectively rather than literally eliminated, and in an irregular and unpredictable sequence, while a player who starts well can take a commanding lead over someone squeaking through. The system in this tournament manufactures a steady drama of drama, like voting somebody off the island each episode.

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