Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 49
  1. #16
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,145
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    2) re male not giving advantage...I think in all the sports (could be due to factors other than muscle mass) males clearly outperform females very significantly so those who change gender may have a good starting edge...not to mention the fact that while in individual cases females could try to become as strong as males, overall, it is quite obvious men are stronger.
    I agree that transgender athletes start with an edge. And males of similar ability do outperform females. But having being male doesn't guarantee that you will become the best female player. Here is a list of famous transgender sportspeople - none of whom are particularly famous for their sporting achievements (Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is a special case, and Caster Semenya may not even be transgender).

  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    13,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I agree that transgender athletes start with an edge. And males of similar ability do outperform females. But having being male doesn't guarantee that you will become the best female player. Here is a list of famous transgender sportspeople - none of whom are particularly famous for their sporting achievements (Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner is a special case, and Caster Semenya may not even be transgender).
    Well nothing guarantees...but the very fact that there is an unfair edge is worthy of consideration.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The island
    Posts
    12,628
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    I am against trannies fitting in the women's come. Maybe set up the trannies own comp.
    Why not just have an open comp and a womens' comp, as many sports already do, and have the womens' comp be for women from go to whoa?

    Sports already recognise the benefits of increased testosterone, cf. Chinese women swimmer drug cheats.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  4. #19
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,145
    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Why not just have an open comp and a womens' comp, as many sports already do, and have the womens' comp be for women from go to whoa?
    Sports already recognise the benefits of increased testosterone, cf. Chinese women swimmer drug cheats.
    Or just test for testosterone levels, and have separate competitions on that basis?

  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    13,197
    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Why not just have an open comp and a womens' comp, as many sports already do, and have the womens' comp be for women from go to whoa?

    Sports already recognise the benefits of increased testosterone, cf. Chinese women swimmer drug cheats.
    In any case you should be able to define ''women'' - and given that there are now ''34 genders'' ...this could be an interesting task.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,145
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Or just test for testosterone levels, and have separate competitions on that basis?
    As Cricket Australia has decided to do:
    In announcing the policy on Thursday, Cricket Australia’s chief executive, Kevin Roberts, said transgender and gender diverse players will be supported to participate in top-flight cricket, subject to certain criteria. Those looking to compete in the female-elite category must demonstrate a concentration of testosterone in serum less than 10 nanomoles a litre continuously for 12 months or more.

  7. #22
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    13,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    As Cricket Australia has decided to do:
    In announcing the policy on Thursday, Cricket Australia’s chief executive, Kevin Roberts, said transgender and gender diverse players will be supported to participate in top-flight cricket, subject to certain criteria. Those looking to compete in the female-elite category must demonstrate a concentration of testosterone in serum less than 10 nanomoles a litre continuously for 12 months or more.
    Given that there are ''34 genders'' - things are going to get exciting
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  8. #23
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wynyard,Tas
    Posts
    2,224
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    As Cricket Australia has decided to do:
    In announcing the policy on Thursday, Cricket Australia’s chief executive, Kevin Roberts, said transgender and gender diverse players will be supported to participate in top-flight cricket, subject to certain criteria. Those looking to compete in the female-elite category must demonstrate a concentration of testosterone in serum less than 10 nanomoles a litre continuously for 12 months or more.
    Are there any plans for FIDE or ACF to introduce similar rules? On the one hand it's unlikely that testosterone helps chess (Judit Polgar and Hou Yifan are better than almost every male player in the world) so a bit strange to use it as the criterion - but on the other hand if you're going to have restricted events you need a way to define eligibility, and the method that has previously worked well is seen as becoming a bit fuzzy at the edges in other sports.

  9. #24
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    Are there any plans for FIDE or ACF to introduce similar rules? On the one hand it's unlikely that testosterone helps chess (Judit Polgar and Hou Yifan are better than almost every male player in the world) so a bit strange to use it as the criterion - but on the other hand if you're going to have restricted events you need a way to define eligibility, and the method that has previously worked well is seen as becoming a bit fuzzy at the edges in other sports.
    I'm not aware of any such plans at either level. I think FIDE is happy for its Federations to decide criteria for who is listed as female and take their word for it. Similarly at ACF level, on my understanding if a state advises that a player should be changed from M to F or vice versa (which typically comes with a name change as well) then this is done.

    The only FIDE policy I'm aware of concerns title eligibility. A trans woman cannot claim a women's title using norms achieved while registered as male; she has to record those norms while registered as female. There was a case of someone trying to claim a title in this manner. However there's nothing to stop a player rated 2110 becoming registered as female by their federation and immediately claiming a WFM title. I don't think FIDE has addressed the case of a female-registered player with a W title transitioning to male and whether they could keep their W title.

    USCF has a formalised policy: https://new.uschess.org/news/us-ches...gender-policy/

    Both FIDE and ACF retain a player's existing rating.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 10-08-2019 at 05:00 PM.

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    13,197
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I'm not aware of any such plans at either level. I think FIDE is happy for its Federations to decide criteria for who is listed as female and take their word for it. Similarly at ACF level, on my understanding if a state advises that a player should be changed from M to F or vice versa (which typically comes with a name change as well) then this is done.

    The only FIDE policy I'm aware of concerns title eligibility. A trans woman cannot claim a women's title using norms achieved while registered as male; she has to record those norms while registered as female. There was a case of someone trying to claim a title in this manner. However there's nothing to stop a player rated 2110 becoming registered as female by their federation and immediately claiming a WFM title. I don't think FIDE has addressed the case of a female-registered player with a W title transitioning to male and whether they could keep their W title.

    USCF has a formalised policy: https://new.uschess.org/news/us-ches...gender-policy/

    Both FIDE and ACF retain a player's existing rating.
    WE have titled female players in Australia who have gone through gender-changing activities. To my knowledge there are at least 2.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  11. #26
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,976
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    WE have titled female players in Australia who have gone through gender-changing activities. To my knowledge there are at least 2.
    Yes; they both qualified for their titles directly while registered as female so the norms business didn't come into it.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 11-08-2019 at 12:58 PM.

  12. #27
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,656
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Yes; they both qualified for their titles directly while registered as female so the norms business didn't come into it.
    Now they are registered as females if they desired could they revert to winning male titles and would/could they keep their females titles? Or this hasn't been considered?
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  13. #28
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,976
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    Now they are registered as females if they desired could they revert to winning male titles and would/could they keep their females titles? Or this hasn't been considered?
    I already discussed this in post 24. It hasn't to my knowledge been considered. Though an open title overwrites the same W title anyway, eg a woman who qualifies for WGM and later qualifies for GM is referred to solely as GM, not GM+WGM. Sometimes a female player will be referred to as IM+WGM because it is possible to qualify for IM without qualifying for WGM and vice-versa.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 11-08-2019 at 01:03 PM.

  14. #29
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,656
    Did Scomo recently declare that the govt. was leaving it up to individual sports as to how they dealt with this issue? I thought a cop out as it result in many court cases, with appeals etc. costing a fortune.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  15. #30
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    37,976
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    Did Scomo recently declare that the govt. was leaving it up to individual sports as to how they dealt with this issue?
    I didn't see such a declaration although there may have been one. I did see him say that he thought individual cricket clubs should decide how they dealt with transgender issues, rather than have Cricket Australia declare rules for affiliated clubs.

    CA has set up a two-tier system in which elite cricketers are subject to the testosterone requirement while community cricketers are not, and can play as the gender they identify as. Community cricketers should however "demonstrate a commitment that their Gender Identity is consistent with their Gender Identity in other aspects of everyday life." so if a bloke who looks like a bloke, dresses like a bloke and acts like a bloke shows up claiming to be female so he can play women's cricket then the answer is no.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. motor sports
    By chesslover in forum Non-Chess
    Replies: 67
    Last Post: 04-07-2013, 09:12 PM
  2. Swimming & Surfing & Water Sports
    By antichrist in forum Non-Chess
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 18-05-2010, 07:54 PM
  3. World Mind Sports Games
    By Kevin Bonham in forum Australian Chess
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-08-2008, 06:40 PM
  4. Mind Sports Weekender
    By Frank Walker in forum Completed Tournaments
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 21-01-2006, 02:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •