Transgender sportspeople: the end of women's sports

[Patrick Byrom]

... Again:

In the 2018–2019 season she was, when competing in the men's team, ranked 554 in the 200 freestyle, 65 in the 500 freestyle, and 32 in the 1650 freestyle. In the 2021–2022 season, those ranks are now, when competing in the women's team, 5 in the 200 freestyle, first in the 500 freestyle, and eight in the 1650 freestyle.

I assume that in NCAA the numbers of male and female swimmers are roughly equal. In a fair transition from Men's to Women's competition, we would expect Lia's percentile rank to stay roughly where it was when Lia was competing as a male against other males. It hasn't. Lia has shot to the top in the Women's 200 freestyle and 500 freestyle after `transitioning' to female. Lia has something that the women do not, and has gained an advantage by `transitioning'. It is not just that Lia is training harder.

I would have assumed that the numbers of female and male swimmers were equal as well, but it appears that they may not be:

Of note: While Thomas' broken records have made news, her times relative to the women's field are generally comparable to what her times relative to the men's field had been. Her best time in the 500 pre-transition (4:18.72) was 12 seconds off the men's record (4:06.32); now, her best time (4:34.06) is 10 seconds off the women's record (4:24.06), having lost 16 seconds post-transition.

[MichaelBaron]

I would have assumed that the numbers of female and male swimmers were equal as well, but it appears that they may not be:

Of note: While Thomas' broken records have made news, her times relative to the women's field are generally comparable to what her times relative to the men's field had been. Her best time in the 500 pre-transition (4:18.72) was 12 seconds off the men's record (4:06.32); now, her best time (4:34.06) is 10 seconds off the women's record (4:24.06), having lost 16 seconds post-transition.

I think we all agree that there are many sports where male's results are well above female's ones. And since this is the case, clearly male participants can outperform female athletes of the same calibre (e.g. not talking about a dog walker outrunning women's running champion) even upon sex ''corrective'' surgery.

[MichaelBaron]

https://thepeoplesledger.com/two-wom...ZrcdMPxT8L2ybA
Not sure how valid the source is but if this is true: I am not quite sure how accurate ''counting hormones'' is going to be when deciding who can and who can not compete...

[MichaelBaron]

I guess some recent bans of transgender athletes from women's sports shows that some people do understand the difference between women and transgender in sports...
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/rug...7e62b8acd249d0

[Scott Colliver]

I have been sitting on the fence on this issue, not sure how to balance the matters.

However I now believe trans women should be able to compete along side women provided they have undergone hormonal treatment.

I disagree with what FINA has done and believe Lia Thomas should be able to compete at the Olympics if she qualified.

[Scott Colliver]

I think is quite a good video looking at evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ9YAFYIBOU

[Patrick Byrom]

I guess some recent bans of transgender athletes from women's sports shows that some people do understand the difference between women and transgender in sports...
https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/rug...7e62b8acd249d0

You need to read that article again. Neither of the two sports has banned transgender females from women's sports. Swimming hasn't even banned transgender athletes from international women's competitions.

[MichaelBaron]

You need to read that article again. Neither of the two sports has banned transgender females from women's sports. Swimming hasn't even banned transgender athletes from international women's competitions.

Rugby league banned for ''time being'' have they not?

[Patrick Byrom]

Rugby league banned for ''time being'' have they not?

Only from international competitions - which are relatively unimportant in rugby league compared to interclub and interstate events. I'm not even sure there currently are any transgender players eligible for international rugby league.

[MichaelBaron]

Only from international competitions - which are relatively unimportant in rugby league compared to interclub and interstate events. I'm not even sure there currently are any transgender players eligible for international rugby league.

So I guess ''only from International competitions'' suggests - only from big events?

[Patrick Byrom]

So I guess ''only from International competitions'' suggests - only from big events?

Exactly the opposite - international rugby league matches are fairly small events compared to club events and State of Origin: "International crowds have traditionally been lower than the largest club crowds in rugby league, with rugby league increasingly focussed on club competition at the expense of the international game. ... "