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  1. #271
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    Wrong thread

  2. #272
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    A qustion that comes to mind based on discussion on another thread.

    When we use the term ''disadvantaged/underpriviledged'' - does it imply that they are put at disadvantage by society/others?
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  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    A qustion that comes to mind based on discussion on another thread.

    When we use the term ''disadvantaged/underpriviledged'' - does it imply that they are put at disadvantage by society/others?
    Non-European societies did not choose to be forcefully subjugated, raped, pillaged, enslaved and often destroyed. So is colonialism the root cause of global inequality?

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Non-European societies did not choose to be forcefully subjugated, raped, pillaged, enslaved and often destroyed. So is colonialism the root cause of global inequality?
    Are their any ways ones can deal with their issues without blaming what happened centuries ago? Shall we blame colonialism for our individual failures in modern day and age? The fact that my great-grandparents were executed/sent to labor camp by Stalin - does it qualify me for being ''disadvantaged'' or wait..my race is wrong to be disadvantaged .
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  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Non-European societies did not choose to be forcefully subjugated, raped, pillaged, enslaved and often destroyed. So is colonialism the root cause of global inequality?
    Subjugation, rape, pillage, and slavery cannot exactly be classified as European devices. Non-Europeans were capable of subjecting others to force, cruelty and violence, and their societies did so routinely. The Mayan human sacrifices are thankfully a thing of the past. Colonisation brought many things, though it did occur together with the abolition of human sacrifice practices in Central America. In this particular example, colonialism can be associated with reduced inequality. Slave trading in Africa has been widespread and slavery practices have run unchecked for millennia. While slavery has long been abolished in the West, it is still prevalent in parts of Africa and Asia today.

    Now what about the descendants of the one million continental Europeans who were captured by the Barbary Pirates and subsequently traded as slaves between 1500 and 1850 AD? Personally I don't blame the present-day Moroccans for this, as no-one who is alive today was responsible for these wrongs. Others who have had ancestors taken as slaves by the Barbary Pirates may still harbour some resentment. However, I haven't seen any serious attempts, recently, to lobby the government of Morocco for reparations to be paid to the families of these victims. Is this because the present-day continental Europeans, being a product of the Enlightenment, are willing to tolerate the past wrongs of other societies, as well as their own, and aspire to the ideals of fraternity and progress for all? Or is it because the continental Europeans know that the good burghers of Morocco are not stupid enough to entertain the prospect of reparations to families of continental European slaves? Perhaps a bit of both.
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  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    Subjugation, rape, pillage, and slavery cannot exactly be classified as European devices. Non-Europeans were capable of subjecting others to force, cruelty and violence, and their societies did so routinely. The Mayan human sacrifices are thankfully a thing of the past. Colonisation brought many things, though it did occur together with the abolition of human sacrifice practices in Central America. In this particular example, colonialism can be associated with reduced inequality. Slave trading in Africa has been widespread and slavery practices have run unchecked for millennia. While slavery has long been abolished in the West, it is still prevalent in parts of Africa and Asia today.

    Now what about the descendants of the one million continental Europeans who were captured by the Barbary Pirates and subsequently traded as slaves between 1500 and 1850 AD? Personally I don't blame the present-day Moroccans for this, as no-one who is alive today was responsible for these wrongs. Others who have had ancestors taken as slaves by the Barbary Pirates may still harbour some resentment. However, I haven't seen any serious attempts, recently, to lobby the government of Morocco for reparations to be paid to the families of these victims. Is this because the present-day continental Europeans, being a product of the Enlightenment, are willing to tolerate the past wrongs of other societies, as well as their own, and aspire to the ideals of fraternity and progress for all? Or is it because the continental Europeans know that the good burghers of Morocco are not stupid enough to entertain the prospect of reparations to families of continental European slaves? Perhaps a bit of both.
    And have the Indigenous tribes been that peaceful to each other at all times?
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  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    Subjugation, rape, pillage, and slavery cannot exactly be classified as European devices. Non-Europeans were capable of subjecting others to force, cruelty and violence, and their societies did so routinely. ...
    Kiddies stuff when compared with European powers, which conquered for plunder and divvied up between them both Americas, all of Africa, south, east and SE Asia, the Middle East, Australasia and sundries like the East Indies, Pacific and Caribbean - virtually the whole world.
    Last edited by Ian Murray; 07-07-2022 at 10:29 AM.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Are their any ways ones can deal with their issues without blaming what happened centuries ago? ..
    You asked:

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    When we use the term ''disadvantaged/underpriviledged'' - does it imply that they are put at disadvantage by society/others?
    How do you address inequality without considering its historical basis? Global inequality is one of the greatest challenges facing humanity, one we are failing to meet.
    Last edited by Ian Murray; 07-07-2022 at 10:31 AM.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    You asked:



    How do you address inequality without considering its historical basis? Global inequality is one of the greatest challenges facing humanity, one we are failing to meet.
    First of all, I do not see it linked to ''Race''. Secondly, History is history. I pointed out that During late 1930's - my family suffered alot of Stalin's purges (more than half of the family members where killed, others -mostly sent to labour camps etc.) - yet those who survived recieved no entitlements but we do not kill, do not steal - focus hard on building a better future and not looking for historic excuses.
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  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    First of all, I do not see it linked to ''Race''.
    Now the race card! There is only one race, the human race. Homo sapiens, the only extant species of the homo genus.

    Secondly, History is history.
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” - Santayana

    I pointed out that During late 1930's - my family suffered alot of Stalin's purges (more than half of the family members where killed, others -mostly sent to labour camps etc.) - yet those who survived recieved no entitlements but we do not kill, do not steal - focus hard on building a better future and not looking for historic excuses.
    That was post-revolutionary politics, not inequality. The Romanov dynasty was based on inequality - the ruling monarchy and landowners lived in luxury supported by servants, while the peasants worked land they could never own.

  11. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Kiddies stuff when compared with European powers, which conquered for plunder and divvied up between them both Americas, all of Africa, south, east and SE Asia, the Middle East, Australasia and sundries like the East Indies, Pacific and Caribbean - virtually the whole world.
    It is not quite so straightforward. Europeans have subjugated non-Europeans. Non-Europeans have subjugated non-Europeans. Europeans have subjugated Europeans. Non-Europeans have subjugated Europeans. Subjugation is not a function of geography. It is not correct to say that Europeans are collectively oppressors, and non-Europeans are collectively victims.

    You asked:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray
    So is colonialism the root cause of global inequality?
    Saying that `bigger powers subjugate smaller powers' would not be telling the full history of the world at all. Smaller powers have generally benefited from interaction and collaboration with bigger powers.

    Reggie: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
    Xerxes: Brought peace?
    Reggie: Oh, peace? SHUT UP!

    -- Monty Python's `Life of Brian'
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  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    And have the Indigenous tribes been that peaceful to each other at all times?
    Who better to comment on this, than the great Mark Latham (5/6/2022):

    AUSTRALIA’S WORST EPIDEMIC
    Occasionally the mainstream media play a useful role.
    This weekend The Australian newspaper has interviewed Judge Judith Kelly in the Northern Territory. She has highlighted the epidemic of violence and child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.
    Since 2000 in the Northern Territory, the police have shot dead two Aboriginal men while 52 women have died from homicides, mostly at the hands of their partners.
    That puts the problem in perspective.
    It’s the national tragedy the Left don’t want to talk about, preferring endless (and meaningless) Welcome to Country ceremonies and the Uluṟu Statement for a treaty and the rewriting of Australian history.
    In NSW I have spoken to police officers in the Western districts of the State who say they work on the assumption that every Aboriginal child over the age of 5 has been sexually abused.
    I asked Premier Dom Perrottet about this and he said “there’s no evidence to say this is true”.
    That’s because Perrottet hasn’t tried to examine the evidence.
    When he became Premier he said Aboriginal Affairs was a big priority for him. What has that meant in practice?
    His big announcement was to fly the Aboriginal flag on the Sydney Harbour Bridge all-year-round. Something he had previously (and accurately) described as pathetic ‘virtue signaling’.
    Some problems are too hard for weak politicians like Perrottet to solve. Albanese is no better.
    The Indigenous in Australia have everything: TV advertising, special football jumpers, reserved employment places, flags on bridges, Sorry statements, Welcome to Country, land rights and big welfare spending.
    They have everything except solutions to the nation’s worst plague, the curse of their wives and children not being able to sleep safely at night.
    Say this and the Left scream ‘racist’.
    The true racism (and barbarism) is to ignore the plight of little girls being raped by their drunken ‘uncles’.
    Tragically, this is what most politicians do.
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  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    Who better to comment on this, than the great Mark Latham (5/6/2022):

    AUSTRALIA’S WORST EPIDEMIC
    Occasionally the mainstream media play a useful role.
    This weekend The Australian newspaper has interviewed Judge Judith Kelly in the Northern Territory. She has highlighted the epidemic of violence and child sexual abuse in Indigenous communities.
    Since 2000 in the Northern Territory, the police have shot dead two Aboriginal men while 52 women have died from homicides, mostly at the hands of their partners.
    That puts the problem in perspective.
    It’s the national tragedy the Left don’t want to talk about, preferring endless (and meaningless) Welcome to Country ceremonies and the Uluṟu Statement for a treaty and the rewriting of Australian history.
    In NSW I have spoken to police officers in the Western districts of the State who say they work on the assumption that every Aboriginal child over the age of 5 has been sexually abused.
    I asked Premier Dom Perrottet about this and he said “there’s no evidence to say this is true”.
    That’s because Perrottet hasn’t tried to examine the evidence.
    When he became Premier he said Aboriginal Affairs was a big priority for him. What has that meant in practice?
    His big announcement was to fly the Aboriginal flag on the Sydney Harbour Bridge all-year-round. Something he had previously (and accurately) described as pathetic ‘virtue signaling’.
    Some problems are too hard for weak politicians like Perrottet to solve. Albanese is no better.
    The Indigenous in Australia have everything: TV advertising, special football jumpers, reserved employment places, flags on bridges, Sorry statements, Welcome to Country, land rights and big welfare spending.
    They have everything except solutions to the nation’s worst plague, the curse of their wives and children not being able to sleep safely at night.
    Say this and the Left scream ‘racist’.
    The true racism (and barbarism) is to ignore the plight of little girls being raped by their drunken ‘uncles’.
    Tragically, this is what most politicians do.
    So we must be to blame for violence, rape and abuse in the communities.....this is what they must have learned from the ''White People'' ....
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  14. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    It is not quite so straightforward. ...
    Not quite, but close enough for argument's sake

    Saying that `bigger powers subjugate smaller powers' would not be telling the full history of the world at all. Smaller powers have generally benefited from interaction and collaboration with bigger powers.
    The ruling classes may have benefited as vassal states, but not the general population. Wars of independence have not been fought to retain colonial rule.

    Reggie: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
    Xerxes: Brought peace?
    Reggie: Oh, peace? SHUT UP!

    -- Monty Python's `Life of Brian'
    Great scene. I've actually got the tee shirt - 'What have the Romans ever done for us?'

    Of course the Romans installed health infrastructure etc for their garrisons, not for the local populace. And the labour force was all slaves, with discipline and public order maintained by brutal punishment of offenders.

  15. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    ...Mark Latham [Hanson's One Nation] ... [Murdoch's] The Australian newspaper
    Neither of which I regard as reliable sources

    ... Since 2000 in the Northern Territory, the police have shot dead two Aboriginal men while 52 women have died from homicides, mostly at the hands of their partners.
    That puts the problem in perspective.
    How so? The police aren't shooting dead enough Aboriginal men?

    ... endless (and meaningless) Welcome to Country ceremonies and the Uluṟu Statement
    Meaningless to who?

    ... The Indigenous in Australia have everything ...
    If you're saying Australian aboriginal people and communities are not underprivileged, then you're off-topic

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