12. You may not vote on this poll
  • Coalition by >30 seats

    0 0%
  • Coalition by 16-30 seats

    0 0%
  • Coalition by 15 or fewer seats

    4 33.33%
  • Hung parliament

    0 0%
  • Labor by 15 or fewer seats

    6 50.00%
  • Labor by 16-30 seats

    1 8.33%
  • Labor by >30 seats

    1 8.33%
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  1. #436
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Strikes are only part of negotiations, of course - most negotiations don't involve strikes.

    Strike action is protected by the government in Australia, within limits. But even if it wasn't, workers would still protest in other ways, which would not allow the company to sack them.

    You may not be a member of the union, but I assume you're happy to accept the pay rises they negotiate
    1) this is why government should not protect strike action
    2) I am not happy/unhappy to accept any pay rises they negotiate. I am happy to negotiate for myself. Let me take care of myself When I put on the ''hat'' of the employer and get others to work with me on my projects, likewise - I never heard the word ''Union'', ''award rate'' etc. I obviously know what the relevant award rates are but I have no problem with people asking me for what they believe they are worth even if its significantly more.
    And additional note on strikes: this is one of the reasons I support professional migration/work visas. When there were public transport disruptions happening due to strikes - I was cherishing the thought of bringing Train drivers from Overseas (most Indian Train Drivers would dream to get additional training and work in Australia) who will work for less money but do far better job.

    Re difficulties for employers to kick out people that do not work well...this is part of the problem with workplaces that have unions. They are not able to kick someone out simply because he is not doing a good job...if doing a bad job is not a reason good enough to get rid of someone who is driving your company down, what can we do...
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  2. #437
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Melbourne - Australia
    Michael, Trade Union Movement has a long and proud history in Australia since the 1820s
    All working class achievements in this country have been brought about through long and hard fought struggles.
    Of course there are cases of corruption, mismanagement and fraud in Trade Unions administration but that has been
    discovered and dealt with.
    That's a characteristic of many organizations including governments, big companies and police just to name three.
    There have also been cases of unions been manipulated by (mainly left wing) political parties, but that didnt last forever either.
    The right to strike is of paramount importance and is considered as sacred by conscientious workers.
    Workers who betray their striking mates and side with the bosses are liable to contempt and be condemned.
    Once someone does that they are branded as dirty scabs for life!
    They can get away with murder but not for having been a strike breaker.
    Workers have paid those struggles with blood!
    Organized workers' movement banning = slavery.
    I remember cases in my working life when you couldn't have started in a job
    unless you were a member of the union.
    Not so sure what happens nowadays, however, in the final stages of my working life
    some unions (incl. a public service one) had deteriorated to the weak as piss level!

    And the necessary / unavoidable statistical trends

    • The number of union members in Australia has declined from around 2.5 million in 1976 to 1.5 million in 2016. During the same period the union member share of all employees (or union density) has fallen from 51 per cent to 14 per cent.
    • Young workers are much less likely to be union members than older workers and casual and/or part-time employees are less likely to be union members than full-time workers and permanent employees.
    • Industry union density is strongest in Education and training and Public administration and safety.
    • The biggest increases in union membership over the last decade and a half were recorded by the Police Federation of Australia (PFA) (up 92 per cent)
    • Australian Nursing and Midwifery Federation (ANMF) (up 84 per cent), and Independent Education Union of Australia (IEUA) (up 35 per cent).

    Source of statistical data
    Last edited by ER; 22-05-2019 at 12:00 PM.
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