Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 96
  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    And if he doesn't, so what does that prove? You're stereotyping again, like your fabled player at your chess club who doesn't work, thus proving everyone on welfare is a dole bludger.
    If not - we are wasting resources and efforts on someone who does not even want to help himself. It is a vicious circle.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  2. #32
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,006
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    If not - we are wasting resources and efforts on someone who does not even want to help himself. It is a vicious circle.
    The shelters are full every night. Your population cross-section of one is meaningless.

  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,242
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    If not - we are wasting resources and efforts on someone who does not even want to help himself. It is a vicious circle.
    Michael, I think your problem is that your have to move to a more gentrified suburb so that you can stop being judgemental all the time. If you are more classy than the mob in your town than it is obvious you need to upgrade your abode. It is better to have the worst house in the best street than the best house in the worse street.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  4. #34
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,799
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    Michael, I think your problem is that your have to move to a more gentrified suburb so that you can stop being judgemental all the time. If you are more classy than the mob in your town than it is obvious you need to upgrade your abode. It is better to have the worst house in the best street than the best house in the worse street.
    What I see in Melbourne CBD is enough...people everywhere...and police just walks past...What would you do if you are a trader...and these people ''land'' just in front of your entrance and you are losing customers? Not to mention increase of risks to general public?
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  5. #35
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,876
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    What I see in Melbourne CBD is enough...people everywhere...and police just walks past...What would you do if you are a trader...and these people ''land'' just in front of your entrance and you are losing customers? Not to mention increase of risks to general public?
    It's not a crime to be homeless. And homeless people are no more likely to be criminals than anyone else.

  6. #36
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    It's not a crime to be homeless. And homeless people are no more likely to be criminals than anyone else.
    It is a crime to block access to private/public property.
    It is a crime to litter.
    It is against regulations/laws of City of Melbourne to consume alcohol right on the street
    Begging is illegal in almost all of the Australian States (Victoria Included)...and the list goes on
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  7. #37
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    17,242
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    It is a crime to block access to private/public property.
    It is a crime to litter.
    It is against regulations/laws of City of Melbourne to consume alcohol right on the street
    Begging is illegal in almost all of the Australian States (Victoria Included)...and the list goes on
    I think before in Sydney there was a Lebo
    mob who would physically and maybe illegally move them on. Would you like their phone number?

    Or would you like a taser gun or water blaster - that was Gunners favourite?
    Last edited by antichrist; 29-07-2019 at 03:12 AM.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  8. #38
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,799
    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    I think before in Sydney there was a Lebo
    mob who would physically and maybe illegally move them on. Would you like their phone number?

    Or would you like a taser gun or water blaster - that was Gunners favourite?
    This should and can be done legally.
    There is no reason why the Melbourne City Council can not...and this is what they were planning to do and urged to do...but..it happened on very few occasions only.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  9. #39
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,876
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    It is a crime to block access to private/public property. It is a crime to litter. It is against regulations/laws of City of Melbourne to consume alcohol right on the street Begging is illegal in almost all of the Australian States (Victoria Included)...and the list goes on
    It's a crime to jaywalk as well. Police aren't likely to arrest anyone for the offences you mention, otherwise they would never have time to deal with serious crimes.

  10. #40
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,006
    The homeless have the same rights as other Victorians, protected by the human rights charter.

    There are a number of legal and advocacy groups helping them to protect those rights. Their achievements are significant, e.g. action by the Homeless Persons’ Legal Clinic, a joint project of the Public Interest Law Clearing House (PILCH) and the Council to Homeless Persons (CHP):

    ...many clients of the Clinic are adversely affected by laws which disproportionately impact on the poor, such as those which criminalise begging or drinking in the street. In one case, Andy (not his real name), who suffers from an acquired brain injury and is under an administration order, received more than $100,000 in fines over a period of five years for offences such as drinking in a public place, travelling without a valid ticket and begging. Most of the fines were issued around Flinders Street Station – his community, home and support network. Non-payment of such fines can result in imprisonment for one day per $100. On 14 December 2001, the Melbourne Magistrates’ Court dismissed all fines against him. Magistrate Grant imposed a condition that Andy comply with a case management plan prepared by Ozanam Community Support Services, stating that “the community should accept responsibility for people in the offender’s position”. The plan will enable Andy to obtain stable accommodation and aged care support. Magistrate Grant also acknowledged the efforts of Felicity Hampel SC, barrister Brian Bourke, Minter Ellison, the Homeless Persons’ Legal Clinic, and the Magistrates’ Court Disability Support Coordinator, all of whom assisted Andy for free: “The proper functioning of the legal system has come to rely on the pro bono efforts of law firms and members of the Victorian Bar. Their assistance is of significant benefit to the community and to the Court itself.”The decision of the Court in Andy’s case recognised that any meaningful notion of justice requires that the formulation and application of the law account for inequality and context. Responses that eliminate inequality and promote human dignity, such as the provision of secure and affordable accommodation, are far more appropriate than imprisoning people for manifestations of poverty such as drinking in the street or begging.

    Clients like Andy are also affected by the selective enforcement of laws or the usurpation of rights by people and organisations attempting to exercise power with impunity. Evan (not his real name), who is on a disability support pension and often sleeps rough, was bodily evicted from a rooming house in Fitzroy. The rooming house proprietor gave no reasons for the eviction and refused to provide Evan with access to his belongings, which remained locked in his room.

  11. #41
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    5,006
    'I regularly don't eat at all': how people on Newstart get by

    A survey of 500 people on Newstart and Youth Allowance reveals many recipients are skipping meals, medication and showers to save money

    The Guardian
    29.7.19

    There is one experience that almost all Newstart recipients might share in common: skipping meals to get by on $40 a day.

    The resounding response to a survey of about 500 Newstart and Youth Allowance recipients suggests many are missing multiple meals each week.

    As political support grows for an increase to Newstart, the Australian Council of Social Service surveyed people on the payment about how they get by on $277.85-per-week.

    It found 84% of those who responded said they had skipped meals to save money....

  12. #42
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    It's a crime to jaywalk as well. Police aren't likely to arrest anyone for the offences you mention, otherwise they would never have time to deal with serious crimes.
    So the question is arresting or whether it is illegal? It is not a crime to be homeless, but should illegal activities be allowed? Should people be charged with crimes or should crimes be ignored? Doe it mean me or you can commit identical crimes and get away?
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  13. #43
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,876
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    So the question is arresting or whether it is illegal? It is not a crime to be homeless, but should illegal activities be allowed? Should people be charged with crimes or should crimes be ignored? Doe it mean me or you can commit identical crimes and get away?
    I'm fairly certain that there are millions of non-homeless Australians who litter and/or drink in public without being arrested

    You obviously didn't read Ian's first post. Homeless people have little money, so can't pay fines, and it would be pointless to jail people for littering or begging.

  14. #44
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    12,799
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I'm fairly certain that there are millions of non-homeless Australians who litter and/or drink in public without being arrested

    You obviously didn't read Ian's first post. Homeless people have little money, so can't pay fines, and it would be pointless to jail people for littering or begging.
    Can they be asked not to commit illegal activities? Such as NOT block access to premises?
    So laws are different for all? If I litter - pay the fine?
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  15. #45
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I'm fairly certain that there are millions of non-homeless Australians who litter and/or drink in public without being arrested

    You obviously didn't read Ian's first post. Homeless people have little money, so can't pay fines, and it would be pointless to jail people for littering or begging.
    From my observations, they are less likely to be dropping litter, and more likely to be picking it up! Eg collecting cans, bottles.
    meep meep

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Should people marry? It seems that God would forbid it.
    By Gnostic Bishop in forum Religion and Science
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 25-12-2014, 11:05 PM
  2. Why do people use swiss perfect?
    By Pepechuy in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 17-08-2011, 10:33 AM
  3. What do you people think about the chessmaster engine?
    By khelben1979 in forum General Chess Chat
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 17-05-2008, 08:32 AM
  4. People Behind the Posts
    By MichaelBaron in forum Help and Feedback
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-08-2006, 05:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •