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  1. #1
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Refunds for withdrawals before event starts

    I saw in one of the Mt Buller threads that Garvin was talking about a player who might be withdrawing from an event and saying they should contact George re a refund.

    I'd be interested to know what standards other organisers apply to refunds for pre-event payments by players who later don't show. My general way of dealing with this issue is simple: no refunds unless organiser error or other unforseen circumstances relating to the tournament were involved, in which case refund in full. I have never refunded for a player who "couldn't make it", "had something else on", "wasn't well enough" etc. Another organiser I know will refund but only if the withdrawal is more than 7 days out.
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  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    We have allowed refunds up until the closing dates for entries. This means we have refunded a couple of entries. After entries close, we will be loath to refund any entry fees, but we might refund dependant on the reason given.

  3. #3
    CC International Master JGB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    We have allowed refunds up until the closing dates for entries. This means we have refunded a couple of entries. After entries close, we will be loath to refund any entry fees, but we might refund dependant on the reason given.
    Customer friendly policy. Is that really possible from a business point of view. What happens if, due to outside influences, 20 (or even more) people pull out?

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGB
    Customer friendly policy. Is that really possible from a business point of view. What happens if, due to outside influences, 20 (or even more) people pull out?
    well the closing date has passed for the open, so no refunds without a damn good reason.

  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    well the closing date has passed for the open, so no refunds without a damn good reason.
    gray, you really need to improve on your customer service and communication skills.

    Your tone above is very hostile and unfriendly.

    AR

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    gray, you really need to improve on your customer service and communication skills.

    Your tone above is very hostile and unfriendly.

    AR
    I didn't think there was anything wrong with what Garvin said...

    What I did think unreasonable is KB's Gestapo-style approach. I mean, what a bastard. If I have to go to hospital and can't attend, you won't refund my money? Likewise if there was a death in the family? Way, way too harsh. Even if someone is too ill to play, I certainly see that as a reasonable excuse.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    I didn't think there was anything wrong with what Garvin said...
    You don't think that "no refunds without a damn good reason" is unfriendly and hostile? It sure sounds like a threat to me. Anyway, he's your mate ain't he?

    I got nothin' against gray - never met the fella - but he's PR performance on the MtB thread is horrible.

    AR

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    What I did think unreasonable is KB's Gestapo-style approach.
    What I consider unreasonable is your gratuitous violation of the normative sense of Godwin's law.

    I mean, what a bastard. If I have to go to hospital and can't attend, you won't refund my money? Likewise if there was a death in the family? Way, way too harsh. Even if someone is too ill to play, I certainly see that as a reasonable excuse.
    Hmmm, neither of the first two circumstances have ever come up; maybe I would if the problem was really serious (and verifiable). I certainly don't give refunds for "had a cold", "felt bad after dinner" and stuff like that.

    Refusal to give refunds after a certain date irrespective of personal circumstances is very common business practice.
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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    What I consider unreasonable is your gratuitous violation of the normative sense of Godwin's law.
    For bringing that up that useless bit of net-nonsense, would you like to be awarded the title of nerd, or perhaps of geek? Or perhaps you could supply me with an accurate distinction between the two?

    Hmmm, neither of the first two circumstances have ever come up; maybe I would if the problem was really serious (and verifiable). I certainly don't give refunds for "had a cold", "felt bad after dinner" and stuff like that.
    I don't think 'had a cold' is what anyone would really say.. how about 'bedridden with the flu', or is that still a no-go in the Bonham books? For the record, I once played a tournament while quite ill but only because someone else was driving, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to make it. I'd be most upset if I was to notify the organiser before the start time and then being told 'too bad'.

    Refusal to give refunds after a certain date irrespective of personal circumstances is very common business practice.
    Newsflash: It's not a business, it's a chess tournament. There is no need for the excessive heavy-handedness and absolute intolerance.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  10. #10
    CC International Master WhiteElephant's Avatar
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    A no-refunds policy does not sound like very good business practice for several reasons:

    1) Bad PR
    2) Encourages people to leave their entries till the last minute which:

    - makes it difficult for organisers to estimate the prospective number of players until the day of the tournament

    - some of those who postpone their entries will simply decide not to play, whereas if they had entered earlier, it is highly unlikely they would ask for a refund.

    W.E.

  11. #11
    CC Grandmaster Spiny Norman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteElephant
    A no-refunds policy does not sound like very good business practice for several reasons:

    1) Bad PR
    2) Encourages people to leave their entries till the last minute which:

    - makes it difficult for organisers to estimate the prospective number of players until the day of the tournament

    - some of those who postpone their entries will simply decide not to play, whereas if they had entered earlier, it is highly unlikely they would ask for a refund.
    So ... what about a shandy ... up to 1 month before the start of the tournament a full refund, reducing by 10% per week thereafter (so if you withdraw in the last week you only get 60% of the entry fee back) .

    I would guess that this would need to be well publicised on the entry forms. Exceptions could be made for cases of geniune hardship. Give a 20% discount to people who sign up 1 month before to incentivise the early entries perhaps?

    Or another option ... give the person the alternative option of taking a credit instead of a reduced refund, allowing them to use it on the next tournament?

    Both of these require additional administrative effort/skill, but a well organised team ought to be able to handle it?
    “As you perhaps know, I haven't always been a Christian. I didn't go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don't recommend Christianity.” -- C.S.Lewis

  12. #12
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Newsflash: It's not a business, it's a chess tournament.
    Newsflash: it is a business. If a tournament continually runs at a loss all the time, the organisers are not going to run the tournament. The tournament has to try to break even . So yes it is a business and yes it is a chess tournament.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
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    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the chess nut
    Newsflash: it is a business. If a tournament continually runs at a loss all the time, the organisers are not going to run the tournament. The tournament has to try to break even . So yes it is a business and yes it is a chess tournament.
    You're only getting caught up in this TP because of your attachment to the Minor. Most tournaments are run at huge profits where I'm from and one refund will hardly break the bank. Think about a university exam. If you are ill, you may get a medical certificate that excuses your absence, or any other extenuating circumstance. If KB was an examiner and you were ill, it would be a case of 'Bad luck, you've failed, better luck next year'. Is that what you really want? Do you really think that's fair? Sorry if I disagree.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
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  14. #14
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    No refund policy required.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frosty


    Both of these require additional administrative effort/skill, but a well organised team ought to be able to handle it?
    Your challenge, Steve, should you accept, is to run events that are so popular that the capacity of the venue means there are more potential entrants than seats in the playing arena. Then you can forget the money-back dilemma; it becomes no drawback to the organiser to give refunds; there is always some-one ready to step into the field, from the waiting list.
    This is how successful I hope you make Croydon Chess Club.

    starter
    Last edited by ursogr8; 27-12-2004 at 07:07 AM.

  15. #15
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    You're only getting caught up in this TP because of your attachment to the Minor.
    Nyet! My comrade, Nyet Nyet Nyet.

    I am looking at it from a commerce students point of view and possibly a NSWCA councillor's point of view.

    Think about a university exam. If you are ill, you may get a medical certificate that excuses your absence, or any other extenuating circumstance.
    For something like a flu.... No.
    For something like being hospitalised due to a severe illness.... perhaps as long as the form is handed in at Most 48hrs after the exam.

    Well that was the policy at my uni anyways.

    If KB was an examiner and you were ill, it would be a case of 'Bad luck, you've failed, better luck next year'. Is that what you really want? Do you really think that's fair? Sorry if I disagree.
    I think in some cases like the above... if there is a severe case of why you cannot make it then sure.... provide the refund.

    I actually like the idea of credit rather than refunds. that way the person has to come back to use the refund for another tournament.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

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