Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 46 to 52 of 52
  1. #46
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Melbourne - Australia
    Posts
    11,722
    who's Kennan anyway?
    ACF 3118316
    FIDE 3201457

  2. #47
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,877
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Many legal systems, the best known of which is the American, regard it as a fundamental right that a person should never be forced to incriminate himself.
    But many sports - golf is the most obvious - rely on the player incriminating themselves.

  3. #48
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    on the skin of the pale blue dot
    Posts
    12,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Many legal systems, the best known of which is the American, regard it as a fundamental right that a person should never be forced to incriminate himself.
    Yet it's not illegal to confess, and confession may lead to reduced sentence.
    meep meep

  4. #49
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    2,156
    The fundamental feature of the American legal system is that if you confess you go under the witness protection program and so get almost no punishment, while your mates are in big trouble. Same is true in most other developed countries including Australia.

  5. #50
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    351
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Many legal systems, the best known of which is the American, regard it as a fundamental right that a person should never be forced to incriminate himself.
    I support this, in the real world. In criminal cases, there is also a fundamental standard of proof beyond reasonable doubt being sufficient -- absolute proof is not required in the real world. I believe that the motivation for this fundamental right -- not being required to self-incriminate -- is to protect innocents who find themselves in ambiguous circumstances from having to give evidence that can be used unfairly against them.

    In chess, however, my thought is that an innocent player should seldom need such protection, as no penalty would ever be imposed unless there is absolute proof that the player broke the rules. Certainly a penalty resulting from 11.3.2.2 (the mobile phone rule) requires absolute proof that the player possesses (or possessed) an unauthorised device.
    Last edited by Andrew Hardegen; 08-01-2019 at 09:17 PM.
    Southern Suburbs Chess Club (Perth)
    www.southernsuburbschessclub.org.au

  6. #51
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Melbourne - Australia
    Posts
    11,722
    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    … if you confess you go under the witness protection program and so get almost no punishment, while your mates are in big trouble. …
    Problem is that usually those "mates" unlike certain chess players and/or officials have long-term memory spans!
    Last edited by ER; 09-01-2019 at 04:13 AM.
    ACF 3118316
    FIDE 3201457

  7. #52
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,081
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I think that's risky. For instance suppose a player actually is cheating, but they come to suspect (without being sure) that another player might have noticed that they have a mobile on them. So, aware that they will be defaulted if the other player's suspicions become concrete enough to contact the arbiter first, they simply erase the evidence that they have cheated and then hand in the phone, thereby getting away with a warning.

    For major events I prefer the stick approach in this instance. Make it an extra offence for a player to fail to admit to having a mobile phone illegally in their possession during the game once aware of it, so that there is a clear option to fine the player or expel them from the tournament.
    I know I am replying a bit late and some posts have been moved. I have not read the moved posts, but since my original post is still here, I will reply here

    With my suggested change, this is the most likely version of events. Player A realises in the middle of the playing venue they have a turned on mobile phone on them. Then they have two choices:

    1) Self report and show the turn on mobile phone to the chief arbiter. The chief arbiter can examine the phone as much as they want under the current rules. The player gets a warning
    2) Player decides instead to leave the playing venue and goes somewhere else, be it toilet, outside the playing venue, where ever. Does not matter. They then lose any protection from scenario 1.
    3) Scenario 3, a player realises they have a turned on mobile phone in the playing venue decides to try and hide this fact by turning it off quickly in the playing venue. This is going to be pretty obvious to some of the other players in the playing venue. They would then lose the self report option and would immediately be defaulted as per the rules.

    I do not have any issue at all if the rules and arbiters want to do is call for the stick all the time, as seems to be the case here, more of it I say, just like I am calling for the stick in major events for no 'on the day' entries, but I think in this type of incident, having a self report clause would have avoided a lot of issues with this incident.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Can you lose rating points when you win a tournament?
    By FM_Bill in forum Ratings Arena
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-03-2012, 05:30 PM
  2. Do i lose my rating?
    By Wade in forum Ratings Arena
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 27-09-2007, 10:48 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-04-2006, 09:46 AM
  4. Both Kramnik and Adams lose in R6!
    By News Bot in forum Chess Australia
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-05-2005, 03:01 PM
  5. Australia lose 3-1 to Mexico
    By News Bot in forum Chess Australia
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 27-10-2004, 11:01 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •