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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Yes, and it's possible to take advantage of the opportunities, while being critical of the shortcomings as appropriate. It's when people take the opportunities but praise the shortcomings they look silly.
    Social credit system in fact has not only bad but good things, such as greater opportunities to combat online crime.

    This is actually one of the concepts we discuss in IT Ethics subject: relationship between security and privacy.
    Social Credit System is actually one of the case studies selected for students to analyze and it is clear that many of them do see the benefits of the system.

    One of the assignment tasks is to analyze the Case using 4 mainstream ethical theories. & the Social credit system does stand firmly on the ground based on those as well .
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    One of the assignment tasks is to analyze the Case using 4 mainstream ethical theories. & the Social credit system does stand firmly on the ground based on those as well .
    Under which mainstream ethical system is it okay for a government to punish people just for criticising it? Utilitarianism might allow for this, but most ethical systems emphasize the importance of individual freedom from government control. Does the analysis allow for the fact that the government which controls the system has been imposed on the people by force?

  3. #78
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Social credit system in fact has not only bad but good things, such as greater opportunities to combat online crime.

    This is actually one of the concepts we discuss in IT Ethics subject: relationship between security and privacy.
    Social Credit System is actually one of the case studies selected for students to analyze and it is clear that many of them do see the benefits of the system.

    One of the assignment tasks is to analyze the Case using 4 mainstream ethical theories. & the Social credit system does stand firmly on the ground based on those as well .
    In your view what are the bad things about China's approach?

    BTW which study do you feel made you more prepared for teaching IT Ethics - Bachelor of Arts or post-grad in Marketing?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    In your view what are the bad things about China's approach?

    BTW which study do you feel made you more prepared for teaching IT Ethics - Bachelor of Arts or post-grad in Marketing?
    Increase in security comes at the cost of decrease in privacy, so the Chinese approach reduces privacy of the consumers. So indeed pros and cons.

    Re my qualifications for the jobs I am doing, well ….you are welcome to go back to my papers, my thesis etc. and keep on reading . You have already researched me a while ago...and welcome to continue any time. As always, feel flattered.
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  5. #80
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Increase in security comes at the cost of decrease in privacy, so the Chinese approach reduces privacy of the consumers. So indeed pros and cons.
    China is aiming for population control. Security is already absolute.

    In Australia curtailment of our freedoms is being imposed "to protect our freedoms", using the threat of terrorism to generate fear. I'd rather keep my freedoms.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    An Indigenous person has no more say in any date change than you do. Unlike in China, where the "small %age of population" who run the Communist Party have complete say in its national affairs.
    This ''small %age'' is selected by people and are voted for.
    Just a different political system!
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  7. #82
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    No connection at all!
    Don't tell me you're a Tiananmen denier as well!

    Is there any propoganda China is selling that you aint buying?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    This ''small %age'' is selected by people and are voted for.
    Can non-members of the Communist Party be 'elected'?
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Just a different political system!
    Obviously. But you can't complain about a small group of people having a disproportionate say in national matters in Australia when it isn't even true, but then support a system where it is true.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Can non-members of the Communist Party be 'elected'?
    Obviously. But you can't complain about a small group of people having a disproportionate say in national matters in Australia when it isn't even true, but then support a system where it is true.
    There are several political parties in China by the way.

    One party is obviously dominant... but choosing between Liberals and Labour is not something I would call a ''wide range of choices'' anyway

    I think it is really good that those concerned about China would a) ask Chinese people what they want and b) attempt to solve their own problems first

    E.g. where the money that is given to indigenous community goes that there are still severe problems years after funding has started?
    Last edited by MichaelBaron; 15-02-2019 at 12:40 PM.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Don't tell me you're a Tiananmen denier as well!

    Is there any propoganda China is selling that you aint buying?
    There is no connection between what happened in the square and Indigenous!

    In fact it is the Indigenous who kick people and burn flags while protesting!

    We had this annual ''show'' in Melbourne CBD once again. I wonder why police was not coming to protesters with alcohol testing tubes...would be interesting to see if everyone was sober or not
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  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    There are several political parties in China by the way. One party is obviously dominant...
    That's the understatement of the year!!

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ... but choosing between Liberals and Labour is not something I would call a ''wide range of choices'' anyway :
    There are more parties than just the Coalition and the ALP, not to mention independents. And at least we are able to make a choice, unlike the Chinese people.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I think it is really good that those concerned about China would a) ask Chinese people what they want ...
    Why doesn't the Chinese government ask the Chinese people if they want an alternative to the Communist Party?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ... and b) attempt to solve their own problems first
    So you are going to stop criticising FIDE until you fix all the problems in Australian chess

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    E.g. where the money that is given to indigenous community goes that there are still severe problems years after funding has started?
    This makes no sense.

  12. #87
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    In Tasmania there's been a debate where the Greens have been trying to attack Chinese involvement in Tasmanian politics and they've generally come across quite paranoid in doing so, especially when they try to link in issues like Antarctic bases and the presence of Chinese people in Australia if there is a war. It's created quite a lot of division with young left-wing voters who are into identity politics and whose kneejerk response to a lot of this stuff is to call it racist. Personally I'm having trouble distinguishing it from early Hanson.

    The Tasmanian Greens accuse everyone who disputes their approach of doing the work of the Chinese Communist Party. I should point them to some of Michael's posts on here so they can see what unbridled apologism for China's democratic deficiencies actually looks like.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    There is no connection between what happened in the square and Indigenous!
    Indeed not, the analogy was between celebrating something (i.e. being Australian or student protests) with a date that signified the slaughter of many of them (indigenous Australians and student protestors). Do let me know if additional explanation is required.

    I notice you let the question about whether there is any communist party propaganda you disagree with go through to the keeper. Wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds you, I guess.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Indeed not, the analogy was between celebrating something (i.e. being Australian or student protests) with a date that signified the slaughter of many of them (indigenous Australians and student protestors). Do let me know if additional explanation is required.

    I notice you let the question about whether there is any communist party propaganda you disagree with go through to the keeper. Wouldn't want to bite the hand that feeds you, I guess.
    This is not a relevant analogy as Chinese students were not drunk while protesting to start with and acted in a civilized way. When protestors are drunk while they should not be shot, they should certainly be detained just like other drunks who are putting up public stunts in the city of Melbourne.
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  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    This is not a relevant analogy as Chinese students were not drunk while protesting to start with and acted in a civilized way.
    Indigenous Australians were not drunk when the first fleet landed either, so if that is your yardstick then the analogy holds. But actually level of sobriety is irrelevant and a typical follow-the-birdie fail from you.

    When protestors are drunk while they should not be shot, they should certainly be detained just like other drunks who are putting up public stunts in the city of Melbourne.
    This has nothing to do with the historical significance of January 26.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

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