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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    My point is not about how effective/ineffective the technology is (less effective than Chinese indeed ). - Just like with the Japanese one - it is about exercising the ''control and monitoring'' options.
    You have no substantive point, you're just using whataboutism.
    In Australian schools we mark the class roll, therefore any level of public surveillance in China is OK, according to you.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    And Japan monitors....? And USA does not monitor?
    Are you making a point or asking a question? In the USA and Japan the people choose their level of monitoring; in China it is imposed on them by the unelected Communist Party.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Are you making a point or asking a question? In the USA and Japan the people choose their level of monitoring; in China it is imposed on them by the unelected Communist Party.
    By the same token, it can be said that communist party represents the people more than any authority in the other countries considered represent theirs.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    By the same token, it can be said that communist party represents the people more than any authority in the other countries considered represent theirs.
    Does Kim Jong-un 'represent' the North Korean people?

  5. #65
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Hi-tech dystopian plot or low-key incentive scheme? The complex reality of China’s social credit system
    South China Morning Post
    8.2.19

    ...But the system could also be used to reinforce political control.

    For example, while the blacklists relate to violations of existing laws and legal obligations, it does not mean those legal requirements are justified...

    “If the underlying offences and laws are unjust, like limitations on speech or religious practice, then their enforcement just doubles down on that,” he wrote in a blog post.

    In addition, some serious charges, such as “endangering national security”, are extremely broad and purposefully vague, enabling them to be applied arbitrarily.

    Samantha Hoffman, a non-resident fellow at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, said this was because there was no genuine rule of law in China.

    “Even regulations [that] are seemingly apolitical can be made political when the Communist Party of China decides to use them for political purposes,” Hoffman said.

    “How do you know a court judgment is fair in the [party’s] legal system, which priorities the party’s political security? The answer is you don’t.”

    For Hoffman, the main function of the social credit system is to make the party’s political control inseparable from the country’s social and economic development.

    “If the party were genuinely interested in problem solving, it wouldn’t need social credit to do it, it would simply need a functioning civil society and rule of law,” she said....

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    By the same token, it can be said that communist party represents the people more than any authority in the other countries considered represent theirs.
    It could be said, but it could reflect on the one saiding it.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    It could be said, but it could reflect on the one saiding it.
    One of the core principles of democracy is respecting choices of other people.
    Such as choices of Chinese people, authorities and society.

    Why not deal with our issues first? WE certainly got plenty! Dealing with online criminals is one of them!
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  8. #68
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    One of the core principles of democracy is respecting choices of other people.
    Like asylum seekers, Venezuelans?

    Such as choices of Chinese people, authorities and society.
    The choices made by the 89 million CCP members are not decided by the remaining 1.3 billion Chinese.

    Why not deal with our issues first? WE certainly got plenty! Dealing with online criminals is one of them!
    So you're an isolationist now.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    One of the core principles of democracy is respecting choices of other people.
    Such as choices of Chinese people, authorities and society.

    Why not deal with our issues first? WE certainly got plenty! Dealing with online criminals is one of them!
    Did you read that straight from the Communist Party propaganda? Sam Dastyari would be proud.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    One of the core principles of democracy is respecting choices of other people. Such as choices of Chinese people, authorities and society.
    Why not deal with our issues first? WE certainly got plenty! Dealing with online criminals is one of them!
    China interferes in our politics, but we shouldn't comment on theirs?
    The Chinese billionaire and major political donor Huang Xiangmo has hit out at a decision to bar him from Australia, describing his treatment as “grotesquely unfair” and telling political parties to return his money if they believe it was given inappropriately. Huang has been effectively barred from re-entering Australia after authorities blocked his bid for citizenship and cancelled his residency. Concerns have been raised about his long-running involvement with the Australian Council for the Promotion of the Peaceful Reunification of China, which experts say acts as part of China’s global influence network.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    China interferes in our politics, but we shouldn't comment on theirs?
    The Chinese billionaire and major political donor Huang Xiangmo has hit out at a decision to bar him from Australia, describing his treatment as “grotesquely unfair” and telling political parties to return his money if they believe it was given inappropriately. Huang has been effectively barred from re-entering Australia after authorities blocked his bid for citizenship and cancelled his residency. Concerns have been raised about his long-running involvement with the Australian Council for the Promotion of the Peaceful Reunification of China, which experts say acts as part of China’s global influence network.
    LOL....so did they reject donations?

    Good to know I am not the only ''Chinese Foreign Agent'' in Australia though.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Did you read that straight from the Communist Party propaganda? Sam Dastyari would be proud.
    As u know I am anti-Communist...but China happens to be a country with well-developed opportunities for private enterprises.

    Universities for example, are in some instances open to all kind of projects and embrace these projects eagerly and fast as opposed to some Australian Universities that take years to make a decision.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    As u know I am anti-Communist...but China happens to be a country with well-developed opportunities for private enterprises.

    Universities for example, are in some instances open to all kind of projects and embrace these projects eagerly and fast as opposed to some Australian Universities that take years to make a decision.
    China has well-developed systems, legal and illegal, to obtain foreign scientific and commercial information.

    My daughter, a CSIRO scientist, has had a couple of all-expenses-paid trips to China to join university staff at intensive teaching clinics.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    As u know I am anti-Communist...but China happens to be a country with well-developed opportunities for private enterprises.
    Universities for example, are in some instances open to all kind of projects and embrace these projects eagerly and fast as opposed to some Australian Universities that take years to make a decision.
    There are many good things about China, but also some very bad ones.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    There are many good things about China, but also some very bad ones.
    Yes, and it's possible to take advantage of the opportunities, while being critical of the shortcomings as appropriate. It's when people take the opportunities but praise the shortcomings they look silly.
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