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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    As long as it doesn't upset the Chinese government.
    I think people in the West are upset with Chinese government instead.
    https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...p5fpb5z8rVmKEk
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  2. #227
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I think people in the West are upset with Chinese government instead.
    https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...p5fpb5z8rVmKEk
    Posting blatant propaganda does not contribute to debate

  3. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Posting blatant propaganda does not contribute to debate
    It is actually the West that is using propaganda to put down Chinese efforts. Happens not only to government but to Chinese companies as well. Jack Ma (one of the best-known) Chinese entrepreneurs is currently under fire for suggesting that people should not be afraid to work ''overtime'' if they want to succeed.
    Immediately - criticism about ''workers being exploited'' followed...in reality (something I've been discussing with my Chinese friends today) Everyone in China dreams of working for Jack Ma''s companies.
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  4. #229
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Reportedly 170 million voters in Indonesian elections.
    China has 5 times the population of Indonesia. How many vote in China?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  5. #230
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    It is actually the West that is using propaganda to put down Chinese efforts. Happens not only to government but to Chinese companies as well. Jack Ma (one of the best-known) Chinese entrepreneurs is currently under fire for suggesting that people should not be afraid to work ''overtime'' if they want to succeed.
    Immediately - criticism about ''workers being exploited'' followed...in reality (something I've been discussing with my Chinese friends today) Everyone in China dreams of working for Jack Ma''s companies.
    Alibaba working hours are 9am till 9pm, six days a week Everyone in China does not dream of being so exploited.

    Jack Ma and Richard Liu defend China’s overtime work culture, but ordinary workers can’t relate

    Chinese browsers block protest against China’s 996 overtime work culture

    Follow China’s “996” work hours and you’ll end up in an ICU, says Chinese developer
    Last edited by Ian Murray; 18-04-2019 at 11:51 AM.

  6. #231
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  7. #232
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    Re 996 culture. This could be indeed too much particularly for Non Graduates.
    however, graduates often see it as a possibility to grow careers. Long-term...not sure how many end up with ICU but I wonder if there is statistical data to show that more Chinese feel stressed at work as opposed to those who are working at our ''lazy-fair'' (no typo there...mixing up words on purpose) workplaces.

    I can recall that years ago, at one of RMIT stuff meetings (must be 2 years ago or so) we were told that if we take night classes, we get paid extra and likewise, extra for teaching public holidays (this has actually changed, as far as I know most unis now postpone classes from public holidays) with Public Holiday pay being double! I noticed that myself along with all or almost all of my Indian and Chinese colleagues were getting delighted to teach night classes (some had families, some did not so other than ethnic background - hard to establish similarities/differences) while ''Australians'' often tended to avoid such arrangements despite the extra pay . I would rather not comment on this - everyone can make his/her choices....but I found it interesting. Note that University lecturers and tutors were not willing to work public holidays to keep their families fed (nobody was starving) but simply saw it as an opportunity to work more.

    So isn't it a cultural trend? If it is, why should we criticize choices that are culture-related? In Singapore people also work crazy hours (can attain to this based on personal experiences) - So is Singapore a totalitarian state? Is it a horrible country to live and work?
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  8. #233
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ''Ordinary'' workers want to work for Jack Ma though!
    It's the line workers who are pushing back at the gruelling hours they have to work

  9. #234
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Re 996 culture. ...
    So isn't it a cultural trend? If it is, why should we criticize choices that are culture-related? In Singapore people also work crazy hours (can attain to this based on personal experiences) - So is Singapore a totalitarian state? Is it a horrible country to live and work?
    The criticism is internal - Chinese workers are criticising the working conditions imposed on them (as reported in media owned by Jack Ma!)

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    The criticism is internal - Chinese workers are criticising the working conditions imposed on them (as reported in media owned by Jack Ma!)
    Of course.. but at the same time, many are dreaming of taking over their jobs. Same in Singapore, some professionals find going tough, some are excited to work there.
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  11. #236
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Of course.. but at the same time, many are dreaming of taking over their jobs. Same in Singapore, some professionals find going tough, some are excited to work there.
    You've gone from "Everyone in China dreams of working for Jack Ma''s companies" to ''Ordinary'' workers want to work for Jack Ma" to now "many are dreaming of taking over their jobs"

    You're making it up, Michael. You wouldn't know how the Chinese workforce felt about working for Alibaba companies.

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    You've gone from "Everyone in China dreams of working for Jack Ma''s companies" to ''Ordinary'' workers want to work for Jack Ma" to now "many are dreaming of taking over their jobs"

    You're making it up, Michael. You wouldn't know how the Chinese workforce felt about working for Alibaba companies.
    All people feel differently but if we poll people if they want to work for Jack Ma or not - vast majority will say they will. Every workplace has people who are not happy, so what? Alibaba is a dream employer for many. Even some Australians would love working there hopefully. Not everyone cares about the so called ''work and life balance'' more than career building.

    This is one of the secrets behind the great rise and China. Rather than be politically active and/or ''ensure that we rest well'' - people are goal-focused. It is also a cultural factor. The example I've been giving previously in other threads - If we look at majority of top junior players at our chess tournaments - they are Chinese and Indian. Top school/uni performers - how many are of Chinese/Indian international background?

    Is there a connection? I believe yes!

    Of course many ''Asians'' show admiration for the Australian lifestyle and state that only after coming here they learned to have fun and to enjoy life etc., it is no reason to discard the fact in some cultures Work/Life ratio is leaning towards working hard and building future.
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  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    All people feel differently but if we poll people if they want to work for Jack Ma or not - vast majority will say they will. Every workplace has people who are not happy, so what? Alibaba is a dream employer for many. Even some Australians would love working there hopefully. Not everyone cares about the so called ''work and life balance'' more than career building.
    You're doing it again! How do you know what the vast majority will say? Show us your evidence.

    China has a 40-hour working week, as we have. You really think they dream about having to put in another 30 hours overtime?

  14. #239
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    iPhones cost US$800, I was offered a job at Foxconn to assemble them for US$1.7 per hour, 40 hours per week
    South China Morning Post
    1.3.19

    A South China Morning Post reporter’s experience visiting Foxconn’s huge facility in Zhengzhou, in China’s Henan province
    Foxconn desperate for new hires as weak iPhone demand has led to less overtime, prompting workers to quit
    ...

  15. #240
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    I thought Michael Baron advocated working harder and smarter, seems to have switched gears to work longer.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

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