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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The US has strategic assets in Australia, such as Pine Gap, which it will defend.

    Are you suggesting that Chinese Australians would refuse to fight in a war against China?
    I am suggesting that majority of Australians will refuse to fight in a war
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  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I am suggesting that majority of Australians will refuse to fight in a war
    And I think its good to make it clear: the case of ''military war'' is highly unlikely in a foreseeable future. But re economic wars etc. They are highly unproductive for us, not to mention the fact that the concept of national interest is strong in China...here it is not!

    You are doubting resolve of the Chinese Australians...what about Indigenous Australians...who claim that ''Australia is illegal'' what does being Australian mean to them?
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  3. #303
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    And I think its good to make it clear: the case of ''military war'' is highly unlikely in a foreseeable future. But re economic wars etc. They are highly unproductive for us, not to mention the fact that the concept of national interest is strong in China...here it is not!
    Right. There is virtually no prospect of a shooting war, but we are already engaged in a cold war. China is rapidly usurping Australia's role as the South Pacific big brother.

    Australia is battling China for influence in the Pacific
    The Economist
    19.1.19

    You are doubting resolve of the Chinese Australians...what about Indigenous Australians...who claim that ''Australia is illegal'' what does being Australian mean to them?
    There is no reason why aboriginals and Torres Strait islanders should fight for white Australians, but they do. Even though after WW2 they were ineligible for soldier settlement land and were refused admission to RSL clubs.

    Indigenous War Service

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I am suggesting that majority of Australians will refuse to fight in a war
    In the event of conscription, refusing is not an option.
    Last edited by Ian Murray; 18-07-2019 at 08:09 PM.

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Right. There is virtually no prospect of a shooting war, but we are already engaged in a cold war. China is rapidly usurping Australia's role as the South Pacific big brother.

    Australia is battling China for influence in the Pacific
    The Economist
    19.1.19



    There is no reason why aboriginals and Torres Strait islanders should fight for white Australians, but they do. Even though after WW2 they were ineligible for soldier settlement land and were refused admission to RSL clubs.

    Indigenous War Service



    In the event of conscription, refusing is not an option.
    1) RE China wanting to become a ''big brother'' - so having USA as a big brother is OK as opposed to having China?
    2) For economic wars....not sure what kind of ''conscription'' is possible. To a large extent it comes down to consciousness of the people involved. It is not Chinese government that forces some Chinese to refuse Apple products in favour of Huawei but their desire to support their country. Nobody stops Austrlaians not to buy Chinese products/products made in China...
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  5. #305
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    1) RE China wanting to become a ''big brother'' - so having USA as a big brother is OK as opposed to having China?
    You've missed the point. Australia has been big brother to the Pacific nations, but is now less trusted as they face an existential climate change threat while Australia keeps mining coal and exacerbating the problem.

  6. #306
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    You are doubting resolve of the Chinese Australians...what about Indigenous Australians...who claim that ''Australia is illegal'' what does being Australian mean to them?
    New statue honours indigenous Diggers who fought in Egypt, Palestine

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    You've missed the point. Australia has been big brother to the Pacific nations, but is now less trusted as they face an existential climate change threat while Australia keeps mining coal and exacerbating the problem.
    Australia can be ''big brother'' only to very small brothers .
    By Chinese standards...I do not think we are a 'globally influential nations''.
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  8. #308
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    And in non-military context?
    Many Chinese are happy to stop buying non Chinese goods to support their country (e.g. Apple). Who will stop buying made in China products? .
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  9. #309
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    And on another note, if we break ties with China, whom will we turn to for production, support and partnership? Who will do manufacturing? Indonesia , Bangladesh or Centerlink?

    What are our Choices?
    May be instead of resisting the Chinese, we should identify learning opportunities and areas where we can learn from their successes.
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  10. #310
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Mack Horton refuses to share podium with Sun Yang after 400m final at swimming world championships

    Key points:
    • Mack Horton called Sun Yang a "drug cheat" after beating him at the 2016 Rio Olympics
    • Sun was handed a three-month doping suspension back in 2014
    • Sun is currently facing allegations of doping violations that could result in a ban from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics

    Australian swimming star Mack Horton has signalled that his feud with China's Sun Yang is as bitter as ever, refusing to share a podium with Sun after the 400m final at the world championships.

    Horton finished second as Sun claimed a record fourth-consecutive 400-metres freestyle final in South Korea but when the time came to stand on the dais for the medal presentation, Horton stood behind it. ...

    The World Anti-Doping Agency is challenging a decision by FINA, swimming's world governing body, merely to warn him over incidents during a doping control team's attempts to take blood and urine samples at his home in China last September, while allowing him to continue competing. ...
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  11. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    And on another note, if we break ties with China, whom will we turn to for production, support and partnership? Who will do manufacturing? Indonesia , Bangladesh or Centerlink?

    What are our Choices?
    May be instead of resisting the Chinese, we should identify learning opportunities and areas where we can learn from their successes.
    their so called success was accidental due to unlimited and encouraged over-breeding, providing much cannon and factory fodder so they could undercut developed nation's wage rates. When the global warming occurs severely - that they have helped occur - much of their inland river system will run dry. They may have Oz meat and dairy industries tied up but they still need fresh water.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Mack Horton refuses to share podium with Sun Yang after 400m final at swimming world championships

    Key points:
    • Mack Horton called Sun Yang a "drug cheat" after beating him at the 2016 Rio Olympics
    • Sun was handed a three-month doping suspension back in 2014
    • Sun is currently facing allegations of doping violations that could result in a ban from the 2020 Tokyo Olympics

    Australian swimming star Mack Horton has signalled that his feud with China's Sun Yang is as bitter as ever, refusing to share a podium with Sun after the 400m final at the world championships.

    Horton finished second as Sun claimed a record fourth-consecutive 400-metres freestyle final in South Korea but when the time came to stand on the dais for the medal presentation, Horton stood behind it. ...

    The World Anti-Doping Agency is challenging a decision by FINA, swimming's world governing body, merely to warn him over incidents during a doping control team's attempts to take blood and urine samples at his home in China last September, while allowing him to continue competing. ...
    If the governing body rules someone as drug cheat and takes away the medal its fine. However, while one is not prosecuted as guilty, he is innocent. Re Mack Horton - should learn to lose gracefully
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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    their so called success was accidental due to unlimited and encouraged over-breeding, providing much cannon and factory fodder so they could undercut developed nation's wage rates. When the global warming occurs severely - that they have helped occur - much of their inland river system will run dry. They may have Oz meat and dairy industries tied up but they still need fresh water.
    And what can our future success be based on? Isolating ourselves from rest of the world? who else needs us and what for?
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  14. #314
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    If the governing body rules someone as drug cheat and takes away the medal its fine. However, while one is not prosecuted as guilty, he is innocent. Re Mack Horton - should learn to lose gracefully
    He is a convicted drug cheat, and recently dodged a drug test. One can draw conclusions from that pretty easily.
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  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    He is a convicted drug cheat, and recently dodged a drug test. One can draw conclusions from that pretty easily.
    So take his medal away then and disqualify. He was allowed to be there and collect his medal, as of now - I believe his victory is legit. If this is reviewed later and his medal taken away - it is another story.
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