Results 1 to 10 of 10
  1. #1
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    16,454

    Two Knights versus Pawn endgame (was 2018 Isle of Man)

    Karjakin shows his technique in the following game.

    Event "Chess. com IoM Masters"]
    [Site "?"]
    [Date "2018.10.24"]
    [Round "?"]
    [White "Karjakin, Sergey"]
    [Black "Sevian, Samuel"]
    [ECO "C88"]
    [WhiteElo "2760"]
    [BlackElo "2634"]
    [Result "1-0"]

    PGN Viewer
     
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    18,979
    Black should have drawn that easily. His last P was two squares beyond the Troitsky Line. Looks like Black headed for the wrong corner, where White's other N could help restrict its movements. Black could still draw by 81... Ke8 according to the tablebase.
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    10,715
    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Black should have drawn that easily. His last P was two squares beyond the Troitsky Line. Looks like Black headed for the wrong corner, where White's other N could help restrict its movements. Black could still draw by 81... Ke8 according to the tablebase.
    Still ridiculously difficult to win such and endgame even with opponent's incorrect play. To be frank, I would not even find a plan.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    18,979

    2N v P instructional video

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Still ridiculously difficult to win such and endgame even with opponent's incorrect play. To be frank, I would not even find a plan.
    I suspect that the top professionals would make sure they can handle it after even Karpov didn't know the right drawing method and headed straight to the wrong corner. Even so, the tablebase shows that even the winners didn't always play the right moves. And Sevian had the same theoretically drawn P position as Karpov, but headed to a different wrong corner.

    I've done it before in an online game many years ago against someone who didn't realize there was a danger, because I had some vague ideas from Averbakh's book on N endgames, and his P was further back. But I would hate to put it through a tablebase even if I remembered, and I doubt that I could do it against strong opposition.

    IM Sagar Shah posts a very instructive 2 knights vs pawn endgame analysis (Troitsky line) with an example tournament game, and shows the right corner to run to when you have a N-P.

    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    28
    Its hardly an ending people invest much time into as its very rare.
    Having said that I had the Kp v KNN against Max Illingworth at the Australian Open in 2009, the black pawn was on the c3 and I knew the position was a draw, although it took me awhile to work out where to place my king.
    Solo then had the exact same position just flipped against Michael Steadman at the 2011 Doeberl Cup (black pawn f3). Solo managed to score a win as Steadman took his king to the wrong corner.

    Id link the games but I don't know how.

  6. #6
    CC International Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,774
    PGN Viewer
     

    PGN Viewer
     

    No idea why the first game works in the viewer but the second doesn't.
    Do you find it hard to get better at chess? Unsure which resources to use?

    As a Grandmaster, FIDE Trainer, 2018 Australian Champion, 2017 Australian Open Champion and published author, I know how to succeed in chess. I've used my training methods to help hundreds of players achieve their chess goals and sustain a large improvement in their skill and results.

    Take the struggle out of chess improvement, by contacting me for chess lessons:

    illingworthchess@gmail.com

  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    36,765
    Quote Originally Posted by Max Illingworth View Post
    No idea why the first game works in the viewer but the second doesn't.
    Neither works for me. I generally put the headers (event, site, date etc) outside the viewer as this reduces the risk of issues.

    [Event "Australian op"] [Site "Manly Sydney"] [Date "2009.01.08"] [Round "8"] [White "Illingworth, Max"] [Black "Mandla, Blair"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "A43"] [WhiteElo "2250"] [BlackElo "2116"] [PlyCount "189"] [EventDate "2009.01.02"] [EventType "swiss"] [EventRounds "11"] [EventCountry "AUS"] [SourceTitle "CBM 128 Extra"] [Source "ChessBase"] [SourceDate "2009.03.05"] [SourceVersion "2"] [SourceVersionDate "2009.03.25"] [SourceQuality "1"]
    PGN Viewer
     

    [Event "Doeberl Cup 49th"] [Site "Canberra"] [Date "2011.04.23"] [Round "5"] [White "Solomon, Stephen J"] [Black "Steadman, Michael VR"] [Result "1-0"] [ECO "C04"] [WhiteElo "2398"] [BlackElo "2217"] [PlyCount "221"] [EventDate "2011.04.21"] [EventType "swiss"] [EventRounds "9"] [EventCountry "AUS"] [SourceTitle "CBM 141 Extra"] [Source "ChessBase"] [SourceDate "2011.05.03"] [SourceVersion "1"] [SourceVersionDate "2011.05.03"] [SourceQuality "1"]
    PGN Viewer
     

  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    18,979
    Is anyone surprised that of all people on ChessChat, Solo would be the one to grind out the win? As a renowned endgame specialist, he knew the right technique here, and just within the 50-move cutoff. For example, 79. Nb6 moves the N far away, but prepares to cut the K off from the safe corner, i.e. is 79... Kd8 80. Kd6 with a barrier, and Steadman had his P above the Trotsky line so had a theoretical draw, but like Sevian, headed for the corner where the blockading N was in range, first to help form a barrier at move 90, cutting off g4, and of course being in range to deliver the mating attack.

    Even so, the tablebase says that Black was drawing for a long time. I’ve inserted some of the key points in the PGN below, with notations of ? for moves that change the result from drawing to losing or winning to drawing, ! for quickest win or longest resistance, and ?? or !! for the only losing or winning moves (even if trivial). As can be seen, Solo played mostly very good moves, but even he let the win slip at two points, which shows just how hard this endgame is for mere mortals.

    [White "Solomon, Stephen J"] [Black "Steadman, Michael VR"] [Result "1-0"]
    PGN Viewer
     
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 01-11-2018 at 01:53 AM.
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    18,979
    The end of Solo's game even made it into this article about Troitsky's great endgame studies.

    BTW, the name Troitsky (Тро́ицкий) is derived from Troitsa (Тро́ица) meaning Trinity.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 05-11-2018 at 02:50 PM.
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    10,715
    Quote Originally Posted by BlairMandla View Post
    Its hardly an ending people invest much time into as its very rare.
    Having said that I had the Kp v KNN against Max Illingworth at the Australian Open in 2009, the black pawn was on the c3 and I knew the position was a draw, although it took me awhile to work out where to place my king.
    Solo then had the exact same position just flipped against Michael Steadman at the 2011 Doeberl Cup (black pawn f3). Solo managed to score a win as Steadman took his king to the wrong corner.

    Id link the games but I don't know how.
    But its always tricky to play it out OTB.
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
    Email webbaron!@gmail.com for more Info!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Pawn endgame awareness
    By Jesper Norgaard in forum Games and Analysis
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 19-08-2012, 01:50 AM
  2. Difficult pawn/queen endgame
    By Jesper Norgaard in forum Games and Analysis
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 21-02-2011, 08:52 AM
  3. Blitz pawn endgame
    By Jesper Norgaard in forum Games and Analysis
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 17-09-2009, 04:50 AM
  4. Pawn endgame study by Ed. Lasker
    By Jesper Norgaard in forum Puzzles and Problems
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 30-07-2009, 07:43 AM
  5. Another pawn endgame - with opposition!
    By Jesper Norgaard in forum Puzzles and Problems
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 26-07-2009, 07:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •