View Poll Results: Pick the winner and the margin

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15. You may not vote on this poll
  • Carlsen by four or more games - impossible

    0 0%
  • Carlsen by three games (7-4) - impossible

    0 0%
  • Carlsen by three games (6.5-3.5) - impossible

    0 0%
  • Carlsen by two games (7-5) - impossible

    3 20.00%
  • Carlsen by two games (6.5-4.5) - impossible

    3 20.00%
  • Carlsen by one game (6.5-5.5) - impossible

    3 20.00%
  • 6-6 tie, Carlsen wins playoff - CORRECT

    3 20.00%
  • 6-6 tie, Caruana wins playoff

    0 0%
  • Caruana by one game (6.5-5.5) - impossible

    2 13.33%
  • Caruana by two games (7-5) - impossible

    1 6.67%
  • Caruana by two games (6.5-4.5) - impossible

    0 0%
  • Caruana by three games (7-4) - impossible

    0 0%
  • Caruana by three games (6.5-3.5) - impossible

    0 0%
  • Caruana by four or more games - impossible

    0 0%
  • Match does not happen or not completed for whatever reason

    0 0%
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  1. #61
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    At this level, forget about trying to draw with K v KBN.
    Especially with 30 second increment.

  2. #62
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    We are lucky they are not playing under the good old rules where the first player to score 6 game wins would win a match...Or else it could potentially last far longer than the Karpov-Kasparov 48-games-long epic!
    Interested in Chess Lessons?
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  3. #63
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    We are lucky they are not playing under the good old rules where the first player to score 6 game wins would win a match...Or else it could potentially last far longer than the Karpov-Kasparov 48-games-long epic!
    Need to be a bit careful about making statements such as this. As has been discussed quite a lot during these classical world championship matches over 12 games, it is clear that the 12 game length is having a large impact on the players willingness to take any risks to try and win a game in case they lose one game and fall behind.

    With the match only being 12 games, losing one game could be fatal to the whole match. In a 24 game match, or first to six wins, losing one game would just be an annoyance.

  4. #64
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Whilst the new regime is clearing out a lot of dead wood and making changes, quite a lot of them good changes it seems, such as the Women's World Championship cycle, I think this World Championship Match could be improved on in two areas.

    1) Longer match- which we have all said would improve the contest and has been remarked before. The rebuttal that a longer match takes too long to hold really does not hold much water with the amount of interest there is in the match. Also I think the format could be improved in point 2 that could help.

    2) Currently, as we are seeing right now, the match involves two games, rest day, rinse repeat and then across games six and seven, one player gets two whites to balance the white after a rest day advantage in the match.

    I think this could be gotten rid of is the match was played as three games then a rest day. So it went. WBW - rest day - BWB - rest day WBW rest day BWB

    Then there is no two games of the same colour in a row. And then this would also allow a longer match to be played as a couple of rest days are cut out. It is common in GM tournaments to play 3 games in a row then rest day.

  5. #65
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    In a 24 game match, or first to six wins, losing one game would just be an annoyance.
    Though with the increased rate of draws at top level whatever the format it would probably take something like 30 games on average for someone to reach six wins between two evenly matched players anyway.

  6. #66
    CC International Master ElevatorEscapee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Carlsen - Caruana.

    PGN Viewer
     

    This flared up to punish me for going to bed after an hour and a half, in the end it wasn't boring at all. Computers have 68...Bh4 winning for black, but the lines are extremely complex.
    Wow! Caruana played a Petroff Defence! That must have come as a surprise to Carlsen!
    "On my chess set, all the pawns are Hamburglers" ~ Homer Simpson.

  7. #67
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    Need to be a bit careful about making statements such as this. As has been discussed quite a lot during these classical world championship matches over 12 games, it is clear that the 12 game length is having a large impact on the players willingness to take any risks to try and win a game in case they lose one game and fall behind.

    With the match only being 12 games, losing one game could be fatal to the whole match. In a 24 game match, or first to six wins, losing one game would just be an annoyance.
    There isn't much incentive to try to win. Even the challenger doesn't have to win a game until the rapids, he can just draw his way through and take his chances in the skittles. Cash incentives for wins would change behaviour I reckon.
    meep meep

  8. #68
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Cash incentives for wins would change behaviour I reckon.
    Unlikely, even if the win bonus was so large as to make it worth financially more than maximising the chance of taking the title. In any case the world championship comes with earning opportunities down the line, including playing the next match.

    The reality is that chess has three realistic outcomes and it isn't easy to beat a player of this standard, even if you're the same standard yourself. We saw most recently in Biel and St Louis that even against slightly lesser opposition Carlsen can't just produce wins to order.

    Obviously the short match, among other inadequacies, discourages risk-taking. Nevertheless Games 1 and 6 produced positions with the potential to be decisive, and Game 5 was hardly uneventful. In terms of things happening that's a mid-range sort of strike rate for the first half of a World Championship.

  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    Unlikely, even if the win bonus was so large as to make it worth financially more than maximising the chance of taking the title. In any case the world championship comes with earning opportunities down the line, including playing the next match.
    Well the match has to end decisively one way or another. Either you take a chance in the classical, or in the skittles. If the classical had a cash bonus attached, might be something they'd think about.
    meep meep

  10. #70
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Well the match has to end decisively one way or another. Either you take a chance in the classical, or in the skittles. If the classical had a cash bonus attached, might be something they'd think about.
    This could be overcome by making the world championship a swiss format affair with many entrants and many rounds and countback - I know it won't happen.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  11. #71
    CC International Master ElevatorEscapee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    This could be overcome by making the world championship a swiss format affair with many entrants and many rounds and countback - I know it won't happen.
    Maybe you know it won't happen because you know it is a stupid idea! (Not that THAT would prevent FIDE from implementing it!)

    Edit - by the way, this must be the only thread on Chesschat that has posts from both "Terminator" & "Garvinator"!
    Last edited by ElevatorEscapee; 18-11-2018 at 12:47 PM.
    "On my chess set, all the pawns are Hamburglers" ~ Homer Simpson.

  12. #72
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElevatorEscapee View Post
    Edit - by the way, this must be the only thread on Chesschat that has posts from both "Terminator" & "Garvinator"!
    It sort-of is and sort-of isn't. Garvinator posted on the only other thread Terminator posted on but that was not his username at the time.

  13. #73
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElevatorEscapee View Post
    Maybe you know it won't happen because you know it is a stupid idea! (Not that THAT would prevent FIDE from implementing it!)...
    So are the Aussie championships held in a stupid manner? Not that THAT would prevent intelligent players from participating.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  14. #74
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    So are the Aussie championships held in a stupid manner?
    It's a matter of scale. It might be nice to hold the Aus champs in a similar format with qualifiers, a candidates' tournament and a match but the prizemoney to make the preliminary stages viable and ensure they attracted the right players wouldn't exist; it could also be difficult to find organisers. These constraints do not apply at World Champs levels. Can't think of any country offhand that runs its national champs along World Champs lines. Every country I can think of offhand uses either round robins or swisses, not because it is the best system but because it is what is most practical at national level.

  15. #75
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    It's a matter of scale. It might be nice to hold the Aus champs in a similar format with qualifiers, a candidates' tournament and a match but the prizemoney to make the preliminary stages viable and ensure they attracted the right players wouldn't exist; it could also be difficult to find organisers. These constraints do not apply at World Champs levels. Can't think of any country offhand that runs its national champs along World Champs lines. Every country I can think of offhand uses either round robins or swisses, not because it is the best system but because it is what is most practical at national level.
    I was attempting to make the point that to make the World Championships more exciting and interesting chess that it follow Swiss Format as many national championships are held not vice versa. I presume that Swiss would be less advantageous for games to be thrown than Round Robin though may not be the case.

    Wouldn't Swiss make draws very unattractive?
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

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