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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    "Conditions" for titled players

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    . . . titled players want conditions laid out for them instead of having to play well to earn their money.
    What's wrong with that?

    AR

  2. #2
    CC International Master JGB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    . I am starting to get the feeling that MOST, not all, titled players want conditions laid out for them instead of having to play well to earn their money.
    I think is pretty sad, Garvin but what your stating is becoming more obvious all the time. Most GM's I know won't even play in a tournament without 'conditions'. The ex-Russian chess players learn the word 'conditions' before 'hello'. Regardless of the first prize fund. If they have to battle out over a week of competition they want to be 'payed' for the work. I think this mentallity is widening through the chess community to involve players who do not belong to the GM class.

    The fact that Chess tournaments are often held in far flung places, cost the player a greater initial funds outlay, making 'conditions' more important.
    Last edited by JGB; 20-12-2004 at 10:31 PM.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGB
    I think is pretty sad, Garvin but what your stating is becoming more obvious all the time. Most GM's I know won't even play in a tournament without 'conditions'. The ex-Russian chess players learn the word 'conditions' before 'hello'. Regardless of the first prize fund. If they have to battle out over a week of competition they want to be 'payed' for the work. I think this mentallity is widing through the chess community to involve players who do not belong to the GM class.

    The fact that Chess tournaments are often held in far flung places, cost the player a greater initial funds outlay, making 'conditions' more important.
    For a lot of players 'conditions' means not much more than free accommodation (and transport if they're lucky), and they still need to play well to make a buck. For a professional chess player at the Australian Open some sort of conditions are pretty essential unless they live nearby (or are willing to consider it a chess holiday). After flights, accommodation and the extra expense of spending two weeks in a holiday village, you would probably need to finish top three to break even (and obviously those travelling from overseas can forget break even without conditions, coaching arrangements or similar).

    It's a simple fact of market forces. The professional players will go where they have the best shot at making a decent return (and maybe paying a few bills).

    Then of course there are times when they just play because they love it and are willing to pay their own way (e.g the recent Olympiad), but it can't work like that all year round.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax
    and obviously those travelling from overseas can forget break even without conditions, coaching arrangements or similar).
    I take some liberties here and say that I dont think any of us are talking about overseas gm's. They are a different situation and yes decent conditions for them is fair enough.

    Can a moderator split this thread as I think we are on a different topic now

  5. #5
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    can we have a change of thread title please. Conditions for titled players in general. I think we are talking more general than just mt buller.
    Anything else Garvin? Maybe a change of forum? It probably shouldn't be in Mt Buller forum if it is general thread - where would you like it moved to.

  6. #6
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    It should be under General Chess Chat.

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jenni
    Anything else Garvin? Maybe a change of forum? It probably shouldn't be in Mt Buller forum if it is general thread - where would you like it moved to.
    now now

  8. #8
    Account Suspended jenni's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    now now
    I exist to serve.

  9. #9
    CC International Master JGB's Avatar
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    In the end, conditions (enough to draw overseas GM's anyway) are not possible without sponsors. And without sponsors Australian chess has a problem drawing the big guns.

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGB
    In the end conditions are not possible without sponsors. And without sponsors Australian chess has a problem drawing the big guns.
    also one of the biggest balancing acts is to try and judge paying out appearance fees etc and having a large prize pool. One affects the other. If we had our time over again or more time I think we might have had a smaller prize pool and gave more conditions to the im's. We were advised and took the advice that a large prize pool would help attract the titled players. Not to be

  11. #11
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    I am not sure that conditions are the only issue for Australian IMs with regard to the upcoming Australian Open.
    I suspect it is also partly a question of respect. The Australian IMs had already had the experience of being invited and then univited almost immediately by the original organisers of the Open. The only Australian IM not to have his conditions withdrawn by the original organisers, discovered that they were to be dramatically reduced by the new organiser and declined to play under the revised conditions.
    Then, until very recently, Australian IMs were being told that would get no conditions and they should be grateful to play in a tournament where GM norms were possible. In the meantime, the IMs could see considerable funds being spent on foreign GMs (some quite modestly rated).
    The logical conclusion - especially since they did not know the reasons why certain foreign players were being invited - was that having Australian IMs in the tournament was not a priority for the organisers
    The Australian IMs could also see a prize fund with a few big prizes which the GMs were likely to win and lower prizes which wouldn't even be break even for them. (I must declare a bias here - I had tried to get the prize fund made longer (successfully) and more progressive (unsuccessfully) in July - with the IMs in mind. The organisers understandably wanted a big headline first prize.)
    Anyway, it is quite understandable that Australian IMs made other plans for the New Year and that the recent last-minute efforts to offer conditions were always a long shot.

    Ian

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers
    The logical conclusion - especially since they did not know the reasons why certain foreign players were being invited - was that having Australian IMs in the tournament was not a priority for the organisers
    That's just disgraceful, isn't it?

    I mean, hellooo . . . it's our friggin' Open!!

    AR

  13. #13
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    That's just disgraceful, isn't it?

    I mean, hellooo . . . it's our friggin' Open!!
    Yes, I could understand how you in particular would be gutted by these turn of events, Amiel. Especially considering the stalwart support you have given to the organisers and tournament over the last few months.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Cox
    Yes, I could understand how you in particular would be gutted . . . .
    Mate, I'm devastated!

    AR

  15. #15
    Mr Bulldogs Paul S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arosar
    Mate, I'm devastated!

    AR

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