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  1. #16
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    Of course compared to the ACF's handling of applications and selections for international junior events throughout this year, the cut-down Australian Open is a major achievement for the ACF. Unless there was a deliberate policy to make sure as few juniors as possible found out about the international possibilities and if they did were to be discouraged from going, the ACF's handling of that issue in 2018 should, even in a volunteer organisation, have led to apologies and resignations.
    This matter is off-topic for this thread and any further discussion of it on this thread will be moved to a new thread. I might be interested in commenting if someone wants to discuss it without engaging in gratuitous threadjacking.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    . Australia is still not a member of the Oceania Chess Confederation because of a range of unresolved issues (including incorporation) that there was expected to be progress on some time ago but for whatever reason there's been no further movement from the OCC end.

    I strongly suspect the dates would still have clashed.
    LOL Ocean chess Confederation...without Australia in it....This very situation tends to be absurd...I think given how small our pond is...it is pointless to have it without the ''biggest fish''.
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  3. #18
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    When the ACF had received no bids for the Australian Open by, say, October 2017, they should have actively spruiked for them in January 2018, contacting potential organisers.
    I tend to agree with this criticism actually, to the extent that whatever else was done there was, for instance, no call for bids that I can find during 2017 in the ACF Newsletter. The earliest call for bids I can find was in February.

    The ACF does have a longstanding policy of supporting bids through a $5000 guarantee against loss which should be well known to state associations.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 26-08-2018 at 06:05 PM.

  4. #19
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    LOL Ocean chess Confederation...without Australia in it....This very situation tends to be absurd...I think given how small our pond is...it is pointless to have it without the ''biggest fish''.
    This is also straying (though more naturally) into off-topic waters so further discussion of it will be moved to an OCC-related thread.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    The earliest call for bids I can find was in February. The ACF does have a longstanding policy of supporting bids through a $5000 guarantee against loss which should be well known to state associations.
    Therein lies the core of the ACF's self-inflicted problems in finding hosts for tournaments.
    Many national championships are organised by clubs or organisations, not State Associations - they then rubber stamp the bid. A notice in the ACF Newsletter may or may not be seen by potential bidders. An organisation genuinely committed to organising an Australian Open, rather than wait for a bidder to fall into their lap, would contact as many potential bidders as possible, as early as possible.
    Expecting the current ACF to help a potential bidder with advice on finding sponsorship and generating publicity is asking too much, of course.

  6. #21
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Posts moved

    As advertised, posts commenting on the junior selections matter have been moved to a new thread.

    http://www.chesschat.org/showthread....Aus-Open-2019)

  7. #22
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    Therein lies the core of the ACF's self-inflicted problems in finding hosts for tournaments.
    Actually in this case there's a self-inflicted problem with reading things into my post that I didn't put there.

    I didn't say that a notice in the Newsletter is the only method by which expressions of interest should be sought well in advance, nor did I say they were not sought by any other methods. Hence the use of such words as "whatever else was done" and "for instance". I was simply indicating one thing that could have been done, that might have been useful, that I knew wasn't. That was all.

    Also, some of the State Associations have been working hard on looking for and encouraging (including with offers of financial support) bidders for these major events.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 28-08-2018 at 07:48 PM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Actually in this case there's a self-inflicted problem with reading things into my post that I didn't put there.

    I didn't say that a notice in the Newsletter is the only method by which expressions of interest should be sought well in advance, nor did I say they were not sought by any other methods. Hence the use of such words as "whatever else was done" and "for instance". I was simply indicating one thing that could have been done, that might have been useful, that I knew wasn't. That was all.

    Also, some of the State Associations have been working hard on looking for and encouraging (including with offers of financial support) bidders for these major events.
    Amazing - rather than deal with the issues, you make the post (final sentence excepted) about you and your previous post.

    I thought the discussion was supposed to be about what the ACF is doing versus what it should be doing regarding the Australian Open (and the other national events which need to be scheduled well in advance).

    The ACF should be looking at all possible measures to avoid a repeat of the fiasco that this year could have become had Box Hill and the NSWJCL not decided to rescue the Australian Open and Australian Junior respectively, despite minimal time for organisation and knowing that many players or parents may not be able to arrange to attend because of the short notice. (January holidays tend to be booked a long time ahead.)

  9. #24
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    Amazing - rather than deal with the issues, you make the post (final sentence excepted) about you and your previous post.
    Amazing - you respond to a correction of a misinterpretation with another misinterpretation ("about you and your previous post", insinuating that I am making it significantly about me, when the first-person references in my previous post were simply in order to explain what the post meant.)

    Repeatedly strawmanning posts is not conducive to taking the high moral ground when it comes to a discussion being focused on the issues - nor to keeping discussions focused on them.

  10. #25
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    Your Englishing is not very good either
    Perhaps it's time to get back to the issues I have repeatedly raised and you have ignored in your last two posts.
    For example, has the ACF started looking for bids for the next (2020) Australian Championships and Australian Junior Championships? If not, why not?
    Last edited by Ian_Rogers; 28-08-2018 at 11:59 PM.

  11. #26
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    Winning an argument/suggesting to ACF what could be done better is usually mission impossible. The final argument of ACF is always going to be ''we are volunteers - why do not you volunteer'' I have seen the very same argument brought forward when pointing out what I believe are ''productive things to do'' to state associations/certain chess clubs. This is why I think that the core problem is lack of professional approach.

    In Victoria alone, there are (at least!) 4 professional chess coaching organisations that are managing delivery of chess training in schools - all appear to be profitable (I obviously have not gone though their books ) and are employing a number of chess coaches. Therefore, chess can indeed be a business/run as a business.

    I am aware that the fault lies with us as well as with ACF/State Associations...not all of us want to become chess organisers/run chess-related businesses. However, the response of ''why don't you do something yourself'' - is always a perfect response.

    There are many people in the chess-playing community with many ideas that are based not only on their experiences within the chess world - but also on other activities (e.g. managing companies). However, lets just say, the ideas/suggestions of changes to the business processes are not always wanted
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  12. #27
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    after witnessing chess players becoming organisers I reached the conclusion that their chess game and rating goes in nosedive
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    For example, has the ACF started looking for bids for the next (2020) Australian Championships and Australian Junior Championships? If not, why not?
    Australian Juniors for 2020 will be held in Queensland (most likely Gold Coast). I have submitted the likely dates through to the ACF already. Off the top of my head (calendar being in the office and i'm not yet!) the dates were going to be Saturday 18th Jan to Sunday 26th Jan.

    This SHOULD leave plenty of time and space for an Australian Open to run earlier in January, though I have no idea about the plans of Oceania Juniors and whether they plan for that to continue in those holidays.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afitz View Post
    Australian Juniors for 2020 will be held in Queensland (most likely Gold Coast). I have submitted the likely dates through to the ACF already. Off the top of my head (calendar being in the office and i'm not yet!) the dates were going to be Saturday 18th Jan to Sunday 26th Jan.
    So the Australian Juniors is no longer being rotated? QLD last hosted the Australian Juniors in 2017. I was under the impression that it was the ACT's turn since it last hosted the event in 2015.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwoodley View Post
    So the Australian Juniors is no longer being rotated? QLD last hosted the Australian Juniors in 2017. I was under the impression that it was the ACT's turn since it last hosted the event in 2015.
    The schedule is still there I believe, though where to find it is another matter. It's actually Queensland's 'turn' in 2020 and Chess Association of Queensland has exercised that right to host. I can't remember the specifics around the 2017 bid in terms of why we had it up here as well, but it was offered and we took it.

    As for other events and the rotation system, the Australian Open/Championships hasn't rotated around each state for many years, whilst the ACT was supposed to have the ASTC this year I believe but that was opened up to a bidding process.

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