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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    Has anyone made an official proposal that the Australian Championship should be every year and the Australian Open dumped? Is there demand for such a move?
    An excellent question, both in its own right and in the context of recent discussion. Perhaps we could have a poll here - of course it wouldn't be scientific but if there was a good number of votes it might be interesting.

    If nobody starts one I might get around to doing it myself when I get a minute (assuming anyone can do so), but as I haven't done one previously I'll give others the first chance.

  2. #77
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Rogers View Post
    Has anyone made an official proposal that the Australian Championship should be every year and the Australian Open dumped? Is there demand for such a move? Talk about strawmanning
    Nice to see you adopting such a useful word but your usage needs a lot of work. This was your context:

    Of course if you run any event down until people don't care as much about it - e.g. by running it at twice the speed - you can then make an argument for abolishing it. All your posts trashing the Australian Open title seem to be pointing towards that as a desired outcome. Certainly it would be less work for the ACF, with no Australian Open or Australian Women's Championship to organise any more.

    Your context was clearly the outright abolition of the title as a potential step beyond what will happen with the event this year. Your use of "Certainly" was completely unqualified and came after I had referred to the concept of having an annual Aus Champs instead. It is entirely reasonable for me to point out that your "Certainly" is false as there is at least one plausible scenario in which it clearly does not apply, one that had already been mentioned. That there is not currently an official proposal does not make the scenario impossible. Whether or not there is demand has no bearing on whether it is impossible. Your "certainly" was certainly overconfident.

  3. #78
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    If nobody starts one I might get around to doing it myself when I get a minute (assuming anyone can do so), but as I haven't done one previously I'll give others the first chance.
    Yes anyone can start poll threads. Admins (including me) can also add polls to existing threads.

  4. #79
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    Australian Open now 9 rounds in 5 days? What a total joke! What is next, turning the Australian Open in a three day tournament with three games per day?

  5. #80
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    From Aus Blitz thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by jammo
    I’m struggling to follow the logic of not having a separate open blitz title yet still having a separate Australian Open title. Surely your argument applies to both blitz and non-blitz?
    There are a few reasons why it doesn't necessarily apply.

    The main one is the tradeoff between norms and the integrity of the Aus Champion title. Having too many foreign players in the Australian Championship could affect the integrity of the Championship title, which is regarded as "the" tournament for champion of Australia. See NZ's ten-way title tie some years ago for an example of how this could be a problem. So the Aus Champs is a closed tournament and the number of foreigners who can play is - in practice - restricted. Player norm opportunities aren't a major goal of the event - if they happen, nice, but they're subservient to the integrity of the title. Whatever we do we should definitely never award the Australian Champion title from an open Swiss. Awarding the Australian Blitz championship from an open swiss is fine though - it's a much less important title, and if an open swiss increases the risk of ties, that doesn't matter since playoffs are fast and fun for spectators. If some 2100 player gets lucky and wins the Australian Blitz after finishing =6th behind a bunch of overseas GMs, that's just a good news story; it's not compromising the integrity of anything that needs taking all that seriously.

    We could (as canvassed by some on this discussion) abolish the Australian Open title and just have a closed Champs every year. However that would lose the opportunities that the Open format provides to organisers in terms of being able to let anyone they like enter without having to worry about overseas player numbers, selections and so on. It might reduce the norm opportunities available to players.

    Another possible solution would be to run the Aus Champs as an annual Swiss with restrictions on foreign player entries only (unlimited entry for Australians, or at least a lowish rating floor for entries). That would, however, strip events like state championships, Aus Junior, Aus Womens of their status as qualifiers for the Aus Champs (in alternate years anyway) which does remove a selling point for those titles.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I want to thank the organisers for their continued efforts to make the event open to even more players. Sorry I won't be able to drop in and watch because of the timing (other commitments Xmas-NYE) but very impressed with the efforts being made.
    Yes, a great effort by organizers! But also is not it a turning point in the Australian chess history? The first time ever 300+ players are participating in the Australian Open. If it is not the format (2 games a day), then what else?

    Chessplayers vote with their feet!

  7. #82
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    Yes, a great effort by organizers! But also is not it a turning point in the Australian chess history? The first time ever 300+ players are participating in the Australian Open. If it is not the format (2 games a day), then what else?
    Location could be a factor too - Open as opposed to Champs hasn't been held in inner Melbourne for a very long time, so no simple comparison point. But there are a lot of interstate players in the top division.

  8. #83
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    With 6 gms participating (I count Timur as his title is a formality) plus Bobby and Kanan, this is the strongest open/championship event ever by miles. Plus 300+ participants.

    Historically Australian Opens have always been an issue. Too few players, too expensive to run, etc. Well I suppose, it is connected to the recent discussion of the world championship format. Hopefully the right conclusions will be made for the future.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlad View Post
    With 6 gms participating (I count Timur as his title is a formality) plus Bobby and Kanan, this is the strongest open/championship event ever by miles. Plus 300+ participants.
    That's a ludicrously ahistorical claim. The Australian Open at Adelaide 1986/7 had more GMs, and the Open in Adelaide 1970/1 had many more world class players. Adelaide 70/71 also had about 200 players, in population terms a better turnout than even the 2018 Australian Junior.
    So probably the right conclusion from the most successful Open is that the best format is 15 rounds, one round per day.
    Last edited by Ian_Rogers; 15-12-2018 at 11:34 AM.

  10. #85
    CC International Master Watto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Location could be a factor too - Open as opposed to Champs hasn't been held in inner Melbourne for a very long time, so no simple comparison point. But there are a lot of interstate players in the top division.
    I suspect that its placement between Christmas and New Year also has a fair bit to do with the large turnout. It's an unusual period in the year of collective 'downtime' where you get a chance to do your own thing, often just at home - eg watch five days of cricket or play chess. A lot of workplaces are already shut so you don't need any special leave to play. By January other commitments take over - back to work or planned holidays. Obviously the format allows it to fit into this period. It's no doubt also a vote of confidence in Peter Tsai and his team.

  11. #86
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watto View Post
    I suspect that its placement between Christmas and New Year also has a fair bit to do with the large turnout.
    Hi Watto! That's a very interesting observation. My initial reaction when I read the announcement of the Open's timing was to express my concerns to Trevor Stanning;
    he didn't sound very optimistic either but at the same time he emphasized his unshakeable faith to Peter Tsai and the team.

    Quote Originally Posted by Watto
    It's an unusual period in the year of collective 'downtime' where you get a chance to do your own thing, often just at home - eg watch five days of cricket or play chess. A lot of workplaces are already shut so you don't need any special leave to play. By January other commitments take over - back to work or planned holidays.
    The reason why I bolted was that Xmas - New Year's Eve period is the time I do all my volunteer work for the year. Puts me in the good books of Sacred Heart's Father John for 12 whole months!
    This is also the reason why I took an early O/S break! The way you put it is quite logical and opens new avenues of exploiting this particular time slot for future Opens or for alternative strong tournaments
    as warm-ups for the Aus Championships.

    Obviously the format allows it to fit into this period. It's no doubt also a vote of confidence in Peter Tsai and his team.

    Yes Obviously. Participants seem to be unperturbed of the double rounds factor. (which was also one of my concerns) As for Peter Tsai I am sure I am not the only one who would consider him
    as a very hot favourite for the chess administrator award of the year! (Quenslanders Stokesy & Fitzpatrick and Victorian Sandler being the others).

    Merry Xmas And a very happy, healthy and prosperous New Year to All!

    Attachment 3713

    Peace and love from Bangkok - Thailand
    Last edited by ER; 19-12-2018 at 04:16 AM.
    ACF 3118316
    FIDE 3201457

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