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  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Cardinal says Catholic Church 'destroyed' documentation of sex abuse
    Feb. 24, 2019

    German Roman Catholic cardinal claims the church "destroyed" documents in an effort to cover up sexual abuse that has engulfed the institution in scandal.

    Cardinal Reinhard Marx spoke at a Vatican summit on Saturday, telling 190 church leaders that the harms inflicted on children in youth were the result of "abuse of power in the area of administration."

    The four-day summit convened by Pope Francis aims to address the worldwide issue of sex abuse within the church. Saturday's discussions were dedicated to issues of transparency and breaking the code of silence that has kept abuse hidden.

    "Files that could have documented the terrible deeds and named those responsible were destroyed, or not even created," Marx said. "Instead of the perpetrators, the victims were regulated and silence imposed on them. The stipulated procedures and processes for the prosecution of offences were deliberately not complied with, but instead cancelled or overridden. The rights of victims were effectively trampled underfoot, and left to the whims of individuals."

    ...
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  2. #32
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    Ex-pope Benedict XVI blames sexual abuse on swinging sixties

    Retired pope Benedict XVI has ventured out of retirement to publish an essay blaming the Catholic church’s sexual abuse scandals on the sexual revolution of the 1960s and “homosexual cliques” among priests. The analysis by Benedict, who abdicated as pontiff in 2013, was immediately criticised as “catastrophically irresponsible” and in conflict with efforts by his successor, Pope Francis, to lead the church out of its crisis.

    “Why did paedophilia reach such proportions? Ultimately, the reason is the absence of God,” Benedict wrote in the 6,000-word essay published on Thursday in the German monthly Klerusblatt, the Catholic News Agency and other conservative media. Benedict traced the start of the crisis to the 1960s, citing the appearance of sex in films in his native Bavaria and the formation of “homosexual cliques” in seminaries, “which acted more or less openly and significantly changed the climate”. He also attributed it to failures in moral theology in that era. ...

    Church historian Christopher Bellitto questioned if Benedict, who turns 92 next week, was being manipulated by others. He said the essay omitted the critical conclusions that arose from the pope’s February sexual abuse summit in Rome, including that “abusers were priests along the ideological spectrum, that the abuse predated the 1960s, that it is a global and not simply western problem, that homosexuality is not the issue in pedophilia”.

    “It is catastrophically irresponsible, because it creates a counter-narrative to how Francis is trying to move ahead based on the 2019 summit,” he told Associated Press in an email. “The essay essentially ignores what we learned there.”
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Ex-pope Benedict XVI blames sexual abuse on swinging sixties

    Retired pope Benedict XVI has ventured out of retirement to publish an essay blaming the Catholic church’s sexual abuse scandals on the sexual revolution of the 1960s and “homosexual cliques” among priests. The analysis by Benedict, who abdicated as pontiff in 2013, was immediately criticised as “catastrophically irresponsible” and in conflict with efforts by his successor, Pope Francis, to lead the church out of its crisis.

    “Why did paedophilia reach such proportions? Ultimately, the reason is the absence of God,” Benedict wrote in the 6,000-word essay published on Thursday in the German monthly Klerusblatt, the Catholic News Agency and other conservative media. Benedict traced the start of the crisis to the 1960s, citing the appearance of sex in films in his native Bavaria and the formation of “homosexual cliques” in seminaries, “which acted more or less openly and significantly changed the climate”. He also attributed it to failures in moral theology in that era. ...

    Church historian Christopher Bellitto questioned if Benedict, who turns 92 next week, was being manipulated by others. He said the essay omitted the critical conclusions that arose from the pope’s February sexual abuse summit in Rome, including that “abusers were priests along the ideological spectrum, that the abuse predated the 1960s, that it is a global and not simply western problem, that homosexuality is not the issue in pedophilia”.

    “It is catastrophically irresponsible, because it creates a counter-narrative to how Francis is trying to move ahead based on the 2019 summit,” he told Associated Press in an email. “The essay essentially ignores what we learned there.”
    Well, nothing can serve as an excuse for sexual abuse (in my view - it is one of the most horrible crimes of all) but on the other note - its hard to deny that ''swinging 60s'' did have an impact on morality of many. Needless to say that arguments such as ''I was part of the hippy culture'' etc should not be used as excuses in court in an effort to lighter up sentences.
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Well, nothing can serve as an excuse for sexual abuse (in my view - it is one of the most horrible crimes of all) but on the other note - its hard to deny that ''swinging 60s'' did have an impact on morality of many.
    That is probably true but also probably irrelevant. It was before my time, but as I understand it, a large driving force of the sexual proclivity of the 1960s was the availability of the pill. This freed women to engage without the risk of pregnancy. Such consideration is not relevant to paedophile clergymen, obviously.

    I think we're passed the point of looking for excuses - there is no excuse, as you note. But we are meant to be looking for causes, to fix the problems. And ex-Pope Benedict completely avoids doing that, as noted in the final 2 paragraphs of the article I quoted.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    That is probably true but also probably irrelevant. It was before my time, but as I understand it, a large driving force of the sexual proclivity of the 1960s was the availability of the pill. This freed women to engage without the risk of pregnancy. Such consideration is not relevant to paedophile clergymen, obviously.
    The idea that convicted pedophile George Pell was a product of the 'swinging sixties' is ludicrous.

    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    I think we're passed the point of looking for excuses - there is no excuse, as you note. But we are meant to be looking for causes, to fix the problems. And ex-Pope Benedict completely avoids doing that, as noted in the final 2 paragraphs of the article I quoted.
    I think the problem was actually caused by the opposite of liberalism. The Catholic Church, in particular, was very authoritarian, which made it much easier for those with power over young children to take advantage of them (the abuse wasn't just sexual). Society, including the Church, is much more liberal now, so the problem should start to fade.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The idea that convicted pedophile George Pell was a product of the 'swinging sixties' is ludicrous.

    I think the problem was actually caused by the opposite of liberalism. The Catholic Church, in particular, was very authoritarian, which made it much easier for those with power over young children to take advantage of them (the abuse wasn't just sexual). Society, including the Church, is much more liberal now, so the problem should start to fade.
    Yes certainly in the case of Pell, he built a career on publicly upholding traditional sex values, as pointed out by David Marr - Brutal and dogmatic, George Pell waged war on sex – even as he abused children (think I may have linked this before).

    Benedict's article certainly does have a 'ridiculous old fossil' ring to it, but who knows how many still weigh his words.

    Personally I don't think it is sufficient to assume the church will change with the times; the church has to be dragged kicking and screaming to moral positions, usually.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Personally I don't think it is sufficient to assume the church will change with the times; the church has to be dragged kicking and screaming to moral positions, usually.
    The Catholic Church has changed, although slowly. However the main change has occurred in lay Catholics. They are much less willing to accept the authority of priests now - the Pill being one of the causes of that, ironically.

  8. #38
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    Still abusing. Still hiding it.

    Pope Francis confirms disbanded nun congregation treated as 'sex slaves' by priests, bishops
    08/02/2019

    Pope Francis has confirmed that a congregation of nuns in France was dissolved after reports they were being used as 'sexual slaves'.

    On Tuesday Pope Francis told CBS News US that nuns had been, and are still subject to, sexual abuse from Catholic priests and bishops. In the worst cases, have been treated as slaves by clergy.

    He said, in one case, nuns at the French Community of St. Jean were abused so badly that the entire congregation was dissolved by his predecessor, Pope Benedict.

    The order was dissolved in 2005, but the reason for this was never made public. ...
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  9. #39
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    Historic Christian Brothers sexual abuse case receives letter admitting repeated rape of orphan

    In an open letter, delivered on the eve of a WA trial, the Christian Brothers have admitted several brothers sexually abused child migrant John Thomas Lawrence for years from the age of nine in two Perth boys' homes.

    WARNING: This story contains material that some readers may find upsetting

    But a lawyer for the organisation has argued he deserves a lower compensation payout than what his lawyers have sought because his poor upbringing meant he had a low earning capacity, regardless of the abuse

    Key points:
    Mr Lawrence says he was sexually abused by four people while in two orphanages
    The abusers included three Christian Brothers and a lay teacher
    Mr Lawrence says he was left suicidal and is seeking compensation

    ...The court heard after Mr Lawrence wet the bed, Brother Murphy ordered him to take off his clothes.

    Mr Hammond said Brother Murphy then raped him as Mr Lawrence cried and screamed.

    It was the first of six rapes Brother Murphy perpetrated against Mr Lawrence. ...
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    However the main change has occurred in lay Catholics. They are much less willing to accept the authority of priests now - the Pill being one of the causes of that, ironically.
    Or is that an effect rather than a cause?
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    Yes certainly in the case of Pell, he built a career on publicly upholding traditional sex values, as pointed out by David Marr - Brutal and dogmatic, George Pell waged war on sex – even as he abused children (think I may have linked this before).
    Yet there is no evidence that he abused children (plural). He was convicted of abusing one teenager, based solely on he-said, he-said from events allegedly decades previously. I think no one from any media-hated institution is safe if that is now the standard of evidence needed for conviction.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Yet there is no evidence that he abused children (plural). He was convicted of abusing one teenager, based solely on he-said, he-said from events allegedly decades previously. I think no one from any media-hated institution is safe if that is now the standard of evidence needed for conviction.
    There is the evidence of those he abused, and of witnesses.

    Also bear in mind that most victims of sexual abuse don't report it.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Or is that an effect rather than a cause?
    I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but this article supports my position: "Yet Pope Paul’s encyclical, and its aftermath, was certainly a major factor in a very significant change over the past 50 years: Catholics’ much-attenuated sense of sin, its life-or-death consequences and its sacramental remedies."

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    Evidence that was not tried, so doesn't count. If these claims were actually cross-examined in a proper law court, they may have proved just as flimsy.

    The trial was entirely based on he-said, he-said. Such claims should be thrown out, but the jury just wanted to get a high-profile Catholic, because Catholics are evil (although at least in American government schools, abuse is 100 times more likely than in a Catholic church):

    Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft looked into the problem, and the first thing that came to her mind when Education Week reported on the study were the daily headlines about the Catholic Church.

    "[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem?" she said. "The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

    So, in order to better protect children, did media outlets start hounding the worse menace of the school systems, with headlines about a "Nationwide Teacher Molestation Cover-up" and by asking "Are Ed Schools Producing Pedophiles?"

    No, they didn't. That treatment was reserved for the Catholic Church, while the greater problem in the schools was ignored altogether.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desmond View Post
    Also bear in mind that most victims of sexual abuse don't report it.
    You are likely right. This doesn't mean that a particular accused person should be found guilty based on what one person said happened decades previously. If the standards of evidence are that low, no man is safe. It is almost impossible to disprove claims about what happened decades ago, and until the Pell case, this is why there used to be the presumption of innocence: the accused didn't have to prove that he didn't do it; the other side had to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did do it. The Pell case allowed presumption of guilt and anti-catholic animus to trump presumption of innocence.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Evidence that was not tried, so doesn't count.
    It's evidence."it doesn't count" sounds rather infantile.

    If these claims were actually cross-examined in a proper law court, they may have proved just as flimsy.
    If by "just as flimsy" you mean, sufficient for police to investigate, DPP to bring to trial, jury to convict, and appeal court to uphold the conviction, then yes perhaps they are just as flimsy.

    You are likely right. This doesn't mean that a particular accused person should be found guilty based on what one person said happened decades previously.
    What it does mean is that if we have evidence that a man has abused say 5 boys, that the actual number of boys may be much higher due to non-reporting.

    Before Ivan Milat died it was hoped by many that he would confess and reveal many other cases that were unsolved/unknown. Unfortunately he didn't.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

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