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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    So do some research. Don't leave it all to others
    Elliot already posted above that 1 in 4 prisoners are Indigenous...since Indigenous do not stand for 25% of the overall population, I assume I know the answer...
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  2. #62
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    So who is to blame? because 7 generations ago ''White people brought in alcohol'' and corrupted innocent indigenous minds - 7 generations later they are still to blame for todays youth's behaviour?
    You claim to have been hearing these arguments for 26 years - care to cite some sources?
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    You claim to have been hearing these arguments for 26 years - care to cite some sources?
    You want links to statements that ''white people are to blame'' for the Indigenous troubles? Never heard this clam before? ...I believe it is central to the entire issue of high crime rate and dysfunctionality of the indigenous communities.
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  4. #64
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    You want links to statements that ''white people are to blame'' for the Indigenous troubles? Never heard this clam before? ...I believe it is central to the entire issue of high crime rate and dysfunctionality of the indigenous communities.
    I was referring to your comment regarding your simplistic view of the issues - ''White people brought in alcohol'' and corrupted innocent indigenous minds - 7 generations later they are still to blame for todays youth's behaviour?

    Was this an agenda item at Uluru, for instance?
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  5. #65
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Elliot already posted above that 1 in 4 prisoners are Indigenous...since Indigenous do not stand for 25% of the overall population, I assume I know the answer...
    So you simplistically assume that 25% of offenders are indigenous, whereas in fact indigenes for various reasons are more liable to imprisonment for the same offences than white offenders. See Indigenous disparity in lower court imprisonment decisions: A study of two Australian jurisdictions, 1998 to 2008

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    So you simplistically assume that 25% of offenders are indigenous, whereas in fact indigenes for various reasons are more liable to imprisonment for the same offences than white offenders. See Indigenous disparity in lower court imprisonment decisions: A study of two Australian jurisdictions, 1998 to 2008
    so are you saying indigenous communities have no problems greater than other communities?
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  7. #67
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Indigenous prison rates are a national shame
    ABC - The Drum
    28.5.13

    The continual rise in incarceration rates of Indigenous Australians represents nothing short of social policy disaster.

    If reducing the numbers of those in prison is to be achieved, then we need to end the reliance on incarceration and invest more into new thinking and rigorous research on non-incarceration alternatives....

    Indigenous persons make up 26 per cent of the prisoner population yet only constitute 2.5 per cent of the Australian population.

    The over-representation of Indigenous persons in Western Australian prisons is the highest of any Indigenous group in the OECD.

    Addressing Indigenous over-representation in custody requires new thinking and tested approaches to the offender population.

    Firstly though, politicians and the public alike need to understand and admit that the current policy ethos, and its reliance of incarceration, is a failure, both socially and economically....

    Those who advocate for new thinking beyond the current social policy failures have hailed Justice Reinvestment (JR) as one new approach.

    Justice Reinvestment was introduced to the US in 2003 by the Open Society Institute and has subsequently been adopted in eleven US states.

    It involves identifying geographic areas from where significant numbers of the incarcerated population emanate and investing in services in these areas.

    Importantly, at the policy level JR aims to divert funds that would be spent on criminal justice matters (primarily incarceration) back into local communities to fund services that are said to address the underlying causes of crime, thus preventing people from engaging with the criminal justice system.

    Detention under this model is seen as a last resort - for only the most dangerous and serious offenders.

    The goal is to shift the culture away from imprisonment and to restoration within the community through restorative health, social welfare services, education-employment programs and programs to prevent offending....

    As the recently-emerged adage says, a 'tough on crime' approach needs to be replaced by a 'smart on crime' approach. A new policy platform to justice is well overdue.

    This platform must be informed by evidence and not the tired political populism that exploits the fears of the electorate if we are to ever make inroads in reducing the hugely disproportionate Indigenous incarceration rate in Australia.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    Indigenous prison rates are a national shame
    ABC - The Drum
    28.5.13

    The continual rise in incarceration rates of Indigenous Australians represents nothing short of social policy disaster.

    Indigenous persons make up 26 per cent of the prisoner population yet only constitute 2.5 per cent of the Australian population.





    Or yes...the communities want more funding...In the meantime...everyone is ashamed.. but not the communities!
    The goal should be not to find alternative ways of dealing with the crimes but to eliminate the crimes in the first place! Do we need such communities? If not - why fund them? Nobody finds Chinese community of Melbourne...and this community makes enormous contribution to our society in a wide range of ways....yet we are funding dysfunctional communities - and the problems are still there!
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 10-06-2017 at 11:14 PM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes
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  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    To the Left, it's everyone's else's fault that criminals commit crimes!
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  10. #70
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    To the Left, it's everyone's else's fault that criminals commit crimes!
    Whereas to racists it is inferior culture.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Whereas to racists it is inferior culture.
    So shall we agree that all should be equal and same laws should apply and no discrimination should take place neither positive nor negative?
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Murray View Post
    So you simplistically assume that 25% of offenders are indigenous, whereas in fact indigenes for various reasons are more liable to imprisonment for the same offences than white offenders. See Indigenous disparity in lower court imprisonment decisions: A study of two Australian jurisdictions, 1998 to 2008
    Interesting article, thanks.
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  13. #73
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Whereas to racists it is inferior culture.
    And to sensible people, i.e. conservatives, criminals are responsible for their crimes.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  14. #74
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    So shall we agree that all should be equal and same laws should apply and no discrimination should take place neither positive nor negative?
    But that would be anti-racist, so the Left will never go for it.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    But that would be anti-racist, so the Left will never go for it.
    One thing that I find amazing is how people support activities of obviously self-destructive nature. It is so obvious that refugees flooding Europe had negative impact on several countries. My friend from Germany was telling me how Refugees who were staying in his city were given a bus with a driver to drive them around and the driver was in despair cause they kept using the bus as a toilet...and now some are saying we need more of those in Australia...
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