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  1. #16
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    The key question is: Do we agree that the same laws need to apply to all Australians irrespective of them being indigenous or not. For example in cases of violence, rape etc?
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  2. #17
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    The key question is: Do we agree that the same laws need to apply to all Australians irrespective of them being indigenous or not. For example in cases of violence, rape etc?
    Well, those examples in no way resemble your original example.

    In cases of violence and rape I'd say yes. A strong message must be sent that these things are not acceptable. The message must be that your race, the race of your victim, your financial status, whether you are on drugs or drunk - none of those things are an excuse, you will be punished if you do these things.

    In other cases, while I don't support a person being cut slack for an offence specifically because of their race, I do support laws that allow for considering their circumstances, and it's just a fact that Aboriginal people are more likely to be in disadvantaged circumstances.

    The example you gave wasn't a case of there being different laws. It may at most have been a case of positive discrimination in the decision of a policeman as to whether to attempt to enforce those laws. However the evidence you've provided is far from convincing on that front. You've assumed nothing was done because the person was Aboriginal, but is there any evidence for that?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Well, those examples in no way resemble your original example.

    In cases of violence and rape I'd say yes. A strong message must be sent that these things are not acceptable. The message must be that your race, the race of your victim, your financial status, whether you are on drugs or drunk - none of those things are an excuse, you will be punished if you do these things.

    In other cases, while I don't support a person being cut slack for an offence specifically because of their race, I do support laws that allow for considering their circumstances, and it's just a fact that Aboriginal people are more likely to be in disadvantaged circumstances.

    The example you gave wasn't a case of there being different laws. It may at most have been a case of positive discrimination in the decision of a policeman as to whether to attempt to enforce those laws. However the evidence you've provided is far from convincing on that front. You've assumed nothing was done because the person was Aboriginal, but is there any evidence for that?
    So some Indigenous people claim that they get ''depressed'' if sent to jail....is it a reason not to send them there while others would be sent or not?
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  4. #19
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    So some Indigenous people claim that they get ''depressed'' if sent to jail....
    Easy solution! If they dislike being locked up they should cease committing violent crimes at a rate of 15 to 20 times more than non-Indigenous people!
    Last edited by ER; 31-05-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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  5. #20
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    There's one old guy who likes to go to jail for the winter.
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    So some Indigenous people claim that they get ''depressed'' if sent to jail....is it a reason not to send them there while others would be sent or not?
    The problem is not that they get depressed; the concern is that they may commit suicide. So if they're arrested for violent crime, then they should be jailed. But jailing people for drunkenness is a waste of everyone's time.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The problem is not that they get depressed; the concern is that they may commit suicide. So if they're arrested for violent crime, then they should be jailed. But jailing people for drunkenness is a waste of everyone's time.
    Jailing all people or Indigenous people? I am not disputing that jailing for drunkenness could be a waste of time - just want to confirm that same laws apply to everyone.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    Easy solution! If they dislike being locked up they should cease committing violent crimes at a rate of 15 to 20 times more than non-Indigenous people!

    Once again, you are reading my mind
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  9. #24
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    Easy solution! If they dislike being locked up they should cease committing violent crimes at a rate of 15 to 20 times more than non-Indigenous people!
    On the other hand, making up statistics should be a capital offence.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Once again, you are reading my mind
    LOL thanks and just in case there's some silly interference by mother superior and acolytes, here's how the other mother (of all leftards) presented
    the situation based on The Australian Institute of Criminology's police data analysis:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-04-0...commit/2602494
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  11. #26
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    LOL thanks and just in case there's some silly interference by mother superior and acolytes, here's how the other mother (of all leftards) presented
    the situation based on The Australian Institute of Criminology's police data analysis:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-04-0...commit/2602494
    Indeed. The leftards don't really care about the Aborigines. If they did, they would not be making excuses for their destructive behaviour, which hurts aboriginal victims of crime.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Indeed. The leftards don't really care about the Aborigines. If they did, they would not be making excuses for their destructive behaviour, which hurts aboriginal victims of crime.
    So who exactly is "making excuses" here? Or are you just making stuff up again?

  13. #28
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    So some Indigenous people claim that they get ''depressed'' if sent to jail....is it a reason not to send them there while others would be sent or not?
    Everyone claims they get depressed if sent to jail. Offenders of all skin colours will plead all kinds of nonsense to try to get out of going.

    Race is not a valid excuse for avoiding jail for serious crimes, and nor are there many other valid excuses. However I do think we should avoid getting into cycles in which poor people go to jail for debts incurred over trivial offences - and not just because this practice tends in practice to discriminate along racial lines.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Everyone claims they get depressed if sent to jail. Offenders of all skin colours will plead all kinds of nonsense to try to get out of going.

    Race is not a valid excuse for avoiding jail for serious crimes, and nor are there many other valid excuses. However I do think we should avoid getting into cycles in which poor people go to jail for debts incurred over trivial offences - and not just because this practice tends in practice to discriminate along racial lines.
    That - I do not disagree with.
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  15. #30
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    LOL thanks and just in case there's some silly interference by mother superior and acolytes, here's how the other mother (of all leftards) presented
    the situation based on The Australian Institute of Criminology's police data analysis:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-04-0...commit/2602494
    I note that if you read that report you would see that the statistics are based on data collected from the criminal justice system. So indigenous people are up to 20 times more likely to "be charged with" assault not necessarily "commit" assault. It is also worth noting that this does not control for socio-economic factors and so that number would most certainly be much lower if you controlled for that contributing factor. Additionally the report also finds that the the assaults by indigenous people are biased towards more minor assaults and less sexual assaults compared the criminal population at large. So while the incidents might by higher the impact on their victims may be lower.

    Just some food for though before you abuse statistics again.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

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