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  1. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ... So ''rehab'' clearly did not work.
    But most of the time it does.

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    But most of the time it does.
    Given how many people reoffend, I am not so sure. Seriously, if I hypothetically kill someone's family member while driving (God forbid) even if it is a sheer accident and not my fault (eg. person suddenly jumped on the road and I could not stop) I would still find it difficult to face the family and not appreciating their support would be unimaginable.
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  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Given how many people reoffend, I am not so sure. Seriously, if I hypothetically kill someone's family member while driving (God forbid) even if it is a sheer accident and not my fault (eg. person suddenly jumped on the road and I could not stop) I would still find it difficult to face the family and not appreciating their support would be unimaginable.
    I think the offender did initially try, but then reverted to previous habits. And only about 45% of offenders re-offend (within two years) in Australia, a rate that can be made much lower by effective rehabilitation.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I think the offender did initially try, but then reverted to previous habits. And only about 45% of offenders re-offend (within two years) in Australia, a rate that can be made much lower by effective rehabilitation.
    Some people seem to be reoffending time after time....shall we keep offering them opportunities? Or shall we draw a line at some point? Now that he reverted to previous habits, shall we keep spending resources on him?

    It is quite interesting how many criminals are playing the ''victim mentality'' blaming tough childhood etc for the crimes they commit. So suddenly we are supposed to feel sorry for the criminals rather than for their victims.
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  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Some people seem to be reoffending time after time....shall we keep offering them opportunities? Or shall we draw a line at some point? Now that he reverted to previous habits, shall we keep spending resources on him?
    What resources are we spending on him, apart from the costs of imprisonment? And people who keep re-offending get longer and longer sentences, so they have fewer and fewer opportunities to re-offend.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    It is quite interesting how many criminals are playing the ''victim mentality'' blaming tough childhood etc for the crimes they commit. So suddenly we are supposed to feel sorry for the criminals rather than for their victims.
    If a person is sexually assaulted as a child, you don't feel sorry for them?

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    What resources are we spending on him, apart from the costs of imprisonment? And people who keep re-offending get longer and longer sentences, so they have fewer and fewer opportunities to re-offend.

    If a person is sexually assaulted as a child, you don't feel sorry for them?
    I feel sorry for him if he is assaulted but not sorry for him if he is assaulting others!
    Btw, since the thread is specifically about Indigenous crime...majority of Indigenous kids are assaulted by fellow Indigenous rather than by ''whites''
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  7. #292
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    Re resources spent. In many countries, people do work in prisons! I think making work compulsory for prisoners would be a great idea! For many - having a job would be a new experience
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  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Re resources spent. In many countries, people do work in prisons! I think making work compulsory for prisoners would be a great idea!
    As previously discussed, all prisoners work except those on remand (who are still presumed innocent)

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I feel sorry for him if he is assaulted but not sorry for him if he is assaulting others!
    So if he has been a victim of assault for ten years as a child, you feel sorry for him. But if he then slaps someone as an adult, you no longer feel sorry for him? Assaulting someone else doesn't eliminate the assaults he has suffered.
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Btw, since the thread is specifically about Indigenous crime...majority of Indigenous kids are assaulted by fellow Indigenous rather than by ''whites''
    That's true. But has anyone suggested otherwise?

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So if he has been a victim of assault for ten years as a child, you feel sorry for him. But if he then slaps someone as an adult, you no longer feel sorry for him? Assaulting someone else doesn't eliminate the assaults he has suffered.
    That's true. But has anyone suggested otherwise?
    ''Slaps'' is an understatement. And the reason I mentioned the indigenous abusing other indigenous is to emphasize that the problems start in these very communities. If a particular community/group of people/tribe etc has a high level of abuse - would you regard it as toxic?
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  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ''Slaps'' is an understatement.
    It was a hypothetical - although you seem to be avoiding the question.
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    And the reason I mentioned the indigenous abusing other indigenous is to emphasize that the problems start in these very communities. If a particular community/group of people/tribe etc has a high level of abuse - would you regard it as toxic?
    What does that even mean?

  12. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    It was a hypothetical - although you seem to be avoiding the question.
    What does that even mean?
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...a39ef4dd275b75
    Jacinta Price

    Aboriginal women have been suffering from “silencing” for as long as I can remember.

    I have outlined repeatedly that in most instances support for alleged perpetrators is forthcoming — without hesitation — from family members and that victims are pressured and forced into silence very easily.

    There are many prominent Aboriginal male leaders who have never been brought to justice for their role in committing violent or sexual acts against women and children, or who have used their power to cover up the similar crimes of family members.
    Last edited by idledim; 13-02-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  13. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/opi...a39ef4dd275b75
    Jacinta Price
    Aboriginal women have been suffering from “silencing” for as long as I can remember. ...
    Michael didn't mention concealment in his post, so I don't know if that was what he was referring to as "toxic".

  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Michael didn't mention concealment in his post, so I don't know if that was what he was referring to as "toxic".
    The culture if silencing is indeed one of the things that are ''toxic''! And so is the very culture of abuse!
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  15. #300
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    And guess who else claims ''white people are behind their drug habits'' https://www.facebook.com/sbsnews/vid...AwOTY3ODgxOTM/
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