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  1. #91
    Premium Member ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    No, you're going to have to inspect every line of every invoice to enforce this.
    Wrong. I pointed out from the beginning that I am strictly talking about buying additional clothing for job interviews which you referred to when this conversation started.

    Fairly irrelevant example since you have to provide your personal details for the flights and booking. But you could go to a travel agent and pay cash if you wanted to. That would keep the transaction details out of the hands of your credit card provider, for example.
    A pensioner paying in cash thousands of $s required for an overseas trip ??? There would definitely be something fishy there providing a good reason to encourage that Scott Morrison bully to ask you "please explain"! Scott Morrison would know about the times of your departure and arrival to Aus before you even think of taking the holiday. Since a pensioner has to declare his/her income situations on request, I don't like his/her chances of getting away with it!

    It's all part of the consumer profile. The shops know a lot about your spending habits (...)
    We all know about marketing strategies. The argument here is about a specific group - social security benefit recipients, whose spending hobbies should be put in order
    since it's my money they spend and not theirs. Every time I think of how much money one should have deposited in the bank (with those ridiculously low current rates) in order to
    receive such high amounts of money on a fortnightly (?) basis I get the chills!

    Not really, when you can buy both from the same places (well maybe not versace, but certainly something of the kind).
    Yes really! your cashless card as a pensioner would be restricted to purchasing certain items only as opposed to mine which will be a free for all cashless card. (*)
    At Target's counter the lady will put back on the return-to-rack shelve your luxury item and with a polite smile will charge you for the items you are allowed to purchase and say "next please"!

    (*) the restrictions put on my spending hobbies are forced by someone who's much stricter and more ruthless than Centrelink but don't tell!
    Last edited by ER; 31-05-2017 at 03:01 AM.
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  2. #92
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    My point is..they are unemployed....yet play chess regularly with intensity of professional chess players.
    So therefore our society doesn't need a safety net?
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  3. #93
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    So therefore our society doesn't need a safety net?
    Even if we do (and even Milton Friedman supported it), it shouldn't be a lifestyle, especially not a multi-generational lifestyle.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  4. #94
    Premium Member ER's Avatar
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    And the harsh reality is:

    From Australian Government - the Treasury report

    Should we be concerned that the population is ageing?

    Yes — the decisions that we take today will affect our children and their children. Our society will look quite different to what it does today.

    Quite simply, there will be many more older Australians than there are today.

    The number of Australians aged 65 and over is expected to increase rapidly, from around 2.5*million in 2002 to 6.2*million in 2042.

    That is, from around 13*per*cent of the population to around 25*per*cent.

    For Australians aged 85 and over, the growth is even more rapid, from around 300,000 in 2002 to 1.1*million in 2042 (Chart A2).

    At the same time, growth in the number of people of workforce age is expected to fall from around 1.2*per*cent per annum over the last decade to almost zero in forty years’ time.
    In 2002 there were more than five people of working age to support every person aged over 65. By 2042, there will only be 2.5*people of working age supporting each person aged over*65.

    So those of you still in the workforce, save, invest, use your creativity and make sure you rely on your own means to support yourself when you reach retirement age.

    The rest of you and it's the leftards I am talking about here just join mother superior and her silly quartet (or shall I say quintet - just noticed another long lost acolyte joining in) end egg up your loony repertoire of whingeing, wowsing, and lamenting your lost causes!

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  5. #95
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    The ageing population is why the Labour government introduced compulsory superannuation decades ago. And why Australia has a strong migration program - despite Hanson's best efforts. So it won't be an issue.

  6. #96
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I do hope fans of income quarantining, cashless cards and so on all saw this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...m-100000-short

    But he said since those customers were put on the cashless welfare card, which is compulsory for all working-age welfare recipients in the trial towns, the repayments to his store had dried up. People were cancelling their Centrepay deductions or reducing repayments to trivial sums, he said.

    Spry believes this is because Centrelink arranges for bill payments for items such as rent and outstanding fines to be automatically deducted from the cashless welfare card at the point of sign-up. It gave people less discretion around how and when bill payments were made, he said. People no longer had enough money left on their card to pay back his business once other automatic payments had been deducted.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I do hope fans of income quarantining, cashless cards and so on all saw this:

    https://www.theguardian.com/australi...m-100000-short
    Good read. However, as far as I understand, the problem is not that the card is being introduced but the way it is administered.
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  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The ageing population is why the Labour government introduced compulsory superannuation decades ago. And why Australia has a strong migration program - despite Hanson's best efforts. So it won't be an issue.
    I am all in support if the migration by the way! And believe that the more great people we can bring in - the better! It is just that we need to focus on quality as well as quantity.

    RE Elliot's post above: One of the problems with the way government handles aging population issue (by offering age pensions to the ''poor ones'' only) is that self-funded retirees also lose access to some of the medical benefits that pension recipients can access for free. In old age, many have medical issues to attend to and the bills will be quite shocking. Given the age of my grandparents (who are luckily recipients of government pension) I can see the potential costs that I may be facing should I live to old age. Given my parents fairly old age (both are still in the workforce though) - I can see what issues they may face in self-funded retirement. The only positive part that I can see in the current - policies - they encourage me to work harder and smarter to be able to take care of everyone I care for financially should it be required as well as take care of myself should I have a long life as well as to be more proactive when getting into ''political campaigning' for people to be able to keep the money they deserve by earning rather than sharing with those who deserve it less!
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  9. #99
    Premium Member ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Good read. However, as far as I understand, the problem is not that the card is being introduced but the way it is administered.
    Absolutely good read, I also found some good reading here:

    Quote Originally Posted by SBS NEWS
    The Turnbull Government will also expand the controversial cashless debit card to new locations.
    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...be-drug-tested
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  10. #100
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    The easiest thing of all is abolish minimum wage laws, or at least allow those on the dole to work for less than the minimum. It's crass that the government forbids them from taking work that pays $500 or even $600 pw.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  11. #101
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The ageing population is why the Labour government introduced compulsory superannuation decades ago.
    It was a very good idea. New Zealand should have copied it.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  12. #102
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    As already demonstrated, the amount of money they receive is a pittance, and if they chose to spend it on something in aisle 8 of the supermarket instead of your preferred aisle, then it's none of your business. It's called living in a free country.
    In a free country, they would spend money they earned, not what other people have earned.

    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Also as can be seen on table 3 from the same link, the job search takes longer as people get older, increasing in every bracket up to 55-64 years old. As you'd expect. The country is not overrun with kids making careers out of the dole. They want to work.
    But then your ilk opposes reform of minimum wage laws that stop them getting work that paid twice the dole.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
    “There’s no point blaming the tragedies of socialism on the flaws or corruption of particular leaders. Any system which allows some people to exercise unbridled power over others is an open invitation to abuse, whether that system is called slavery or socialism or something else.”—Thomas Sowell

  13. #103
    CC Grandmaster Ian Murray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    And the harsh reality is:

    From Australian Government - the Treasury report

    ...The number of Australians aged 65 and over is expected to increase rapidly, from around 2.5*million in 2002 to 6.2*million in 2042.

    That is, from around 13*per*cent of the population to around 25*per*cent....
    No population growth in the next 25 years? Something amiss in Treasury

  14. #104
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Even if we do (and even Milton Friedman supported it), it shouldn't be a lifestyle, especially not a multi-generational lifestyle.
    And it isn't, as already demonstrated with the pittance pay rates and the low long term unemployed rates.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

  15. #105
    CC Grandmaster Desmond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    In a free country, they would spend money they earned, not what other people have earned.


    But then your ilk opposes reform of minimum wage laws that stop them getting work that paid twice the dole.
    Try dealing with the things that I actually have said, we all know you can knock strawmen over.
    So what's your excuse? To run like the devil's chasing you.

    See you in another life, brotha.

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