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  2. #2
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    Are these New Laws ? Ah just new edition of the same stuff with corrections.
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  3. #3
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    Kevin, would you be able to give a TL:DR summary of the new rules in effect if you have time?
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 07-04-2017 at 10:41 AM. Reason: disable smilies

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    Well I'm just glad we still have the `chessclock'. I love that word.
    Southern Suburbs Chess Club (Perth)
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  5. #5
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    Kevin, would you be able to give a TLR summary of the new rules in effect if you have time?
    A useful exercise because it forces me to read them all.

    FIDE posted a Table of Changes for the Baku-approved version http://rules.fide.com/images/stories...of_changes.pdf but then there were more changes for the final version http://rules.fide.com/images/stories...ifferences.pdf . In a lot of cases the initial changes were changed back.

    These are the significant changes:

    * If you touch a piece without saying "adjust" or "j'adoube" then this is considered to be a deliberate touch of that piece unless clearly accidental. (4.2.2) (Many arbiters were already applying this standard anyway.)

    * A draw agreement is only valid if both players have made at least one move. (5.2.3)

    * If the regulations of an event do not specify when a player must arrive at the board to avoid forfeiting a game for lateness, then the default time is zero. Previously this wasn't clarified. (6.7.1)

    * If a game starts with the wrong colours, it will now be restarted provided less than 10 moves have been made by both players. (7.3)

    * Using two hands to make a move, or pressing the clock without making a move, become "considered as an illegal move" (7.7.1 and 7.8.1). First offence two minutes added to opponent, second offence loss of game.

    * There is a minor change to the rules for tournaments that ban agreed draws in less than a certain number of moves. In these cases players also cannot offer draws before that number of moves. (9.1.1)

    * The arbiter must declare a draw when the same position has appeared five times with the same player to move etc (9.6.1) Previously this applied only if there were five consecutive alternative moves that are the same but that created a loophole for juniors who, for instance, checked back and forth on three different squares.

    * The total score for a game cannot exceed the normal maximum total score (this stops scores like 1-1/2) and also irregular scores like 3/4-1/4 are banned (10.2)

    * "The regulations of an event may specify that the opponent of the player having a move must report to the arbiter when he wishes to leave the playing area" (11.2.4)

    * Mobile phone rule allows players to have a phone in a bag if the phone is off and the bag is not accessed and the event regulations allow it. This is the change arbiters were instructed to adopt to the previous version.

    * Both players must assist the arbiter to reconstruct the game if required. (11.11)

    * In rapid or blitz games the player can ask the arbiter to provide them with a scoresheet if they wish to record moves. If the player is not recording but the arbiter is recording, the player can ask the arbiter to show them the scoresheet a maximum of five times during the game.

    * The arbiter can call flag fall in rapid or blitz if the arbiter observes it. (A4.5)

    * Games without increment including quickplay finishes have been moved to Guidelines section III as FIDE is trying to phase out such games.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    * The total score for a game cannot exceed the normal maximum total score (this stops scores like 1-1/2) and also irregular scores like 3/4-1/4 are banned (10.2).
    I presume this doesn't apply to the not unknown case where a player requests a half-point bye, the arbiter doesn't get the message in time and the player they are paired against gets a forfeit - that is, the resultant 1.5 points are not for the "game".

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    * The total score for a game cannot exceed the normal maximum total score (this stops scores like 1-1/2) and also irregular scores like 3/4-1/4 are banned (10.2)

    When was this ever a problem? Is what Ian Rout mentioned a serious issue? also I've never seen 3/4-1/4 before

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    * The arbiter can call flag fall in rapid or blitz if the arbiter observes it. (A4.5)
    Are they required/expected to?

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    When was this ever a problem?
    There was a massive controversy involving the British U8 Championship 2014, where to resolve an unclear dispute between two juniors in a way that kept everybody happy one player was given a full point and the other player half a point. However this did not keep everybody else happy as prizes for other juniors were affected. It went all the way to FIDE which couldn't really do a lot as the event wasn't FIDE-rated but at least now the Laws are changed to ban this practice.

    also I've never seen 3/4-1/4 before
    I've never seen it in a real event situation either.

    Are they required/expected to?
    It only says "can" so I think it is entirely optional.

  9. #9
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    I presume this doesn't apply to the not unknown case where a player requests a half-point bye, the arbiter doesn't get the message in time and the player they are paired against gets a forfeit - that is, the resultant 1.5 points are not for the "game".
    Correct. In such cases the arbiter might code these outcomes as two different games. That said it is better to adopt procedures that avoid or reduce the risk of this possibility.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    Is what Ian Rout mentioned a serious issue? also I've never seen 3/4-1/4 before
    It's an issue if it happens, since 1.5 is the only fair solution - if the two events occurred separately that would be the uncontroversial scoring. I vaguely recall seeing it occasionally.

    There was an analogous instance in the recent state championship. A player withdrew shortly before the event and attempted to notify the listed arbiter who had however been replaced, so somebody got a forfeit win. If instead somebody had requested a half-point bye and that happened you would have the circumstance described.

    I've also never seen 3/4-1/4. Maybe if a game was forfeited and both players were partly responsible but one was considered more at fault then an arbiter might come up with that one.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    A useful exercise because it forces me to read them all.

    FIDE posted a Table of Changes for the Baku-approved version http://rules.fide.com/images/stories...of_changes.pdf but then there were more changes for the final version http://rules.fide.com/images/stories...ifferences.pdf . In a lot of cases the initial changes were changed back.

    These are the significant changes:

    * If you touch a piece without saying "adjust" or "j'adoube" then this is considered to be a deliberate touch of that piece unless clearly accidental. (4.2.2) (Many arbiters were already applying this standard anyway.)

    * A draw agreement is only valid if both players have made at least one move. (5.2.3)

    * If the regulations of an event do not specify when a player must arrive at the board to avoid forfeiting a game for lateness, then the default time is zero. Previously this wasn't clarified. (6.7.1)

    * If a game starts with the wrong colours, it will now be restarted provided less than 10 moves have been made by both players. (7.3)

    * Using two hands to make a move, or pressing the clock without making a move, become "considered as an illegal move" (7.7.1 and 7.8.1). First offence two minutes added to opponent, second offence loss of game.

    * There is a minor change to the rules for tournaments that ban agreed draws in less than a certain number of moves. In these cases players also cannot offer draws before that number of moves. (9.1.1)

    * The arbiter must declare a draw when the same position has appeared five times with the same player to move etc (9.6.1) Previously this applied only if there were five consecutive alternative moves that are the same but that created a loophole for juniors who, for instance, checked back and forth on three different squares.

    * The total score for a game cannot exceed the normal maximum total score (this stops scores like 1-1/2) and also irregular scores like 3/4-1/4 are banned (10.2)

    * "The regulations of an event may specify that the opponent of the player having a move must report to the arbiter when he wishes to leave the playing area" (11.2.4)

    * Mobile phone rule allows players to have a phone in a bag if the phone is off and the bag is not accessed and the event regulations allow it. This is the change arbiters were instructed to adopt to the previous version.

    * Both players must assist the arbiter to reconstruct the game if required. (11.11)

    * In rapid or blitz games the player can ask the arbiter to provide them with a scoresheet if they wish to record moves. If the player is not recording but the arbiter is recording, the player can ask the arbiter to show them the scoresheet a maximum of five times during the game.

    * The arbiter can call flag fall in rapid or blitz if the arbiter observes it. (A4.5)

    * Games without increment including quickplay finishes have been moved to Guidelines section III as FIDE is trying to phase out such games.
    The 10 moves limit for illegal moves and displaced pieces in Article 7 have been removed from the proposal.
    An illegal initial position will cancel the game as before.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    It's an issue if it happens, since 1.5 is the only fair solution - if the two events occurred separately that would be the uncontroversial scoring. I vaguely recall seeing it occasionally. There was an analogous instance in the recent state championship. A player withdrew shortly before the event and attempted to notify the listed arbiter who had however been replaced, so somebody got a forfeit win. If instead somebody had requested a half-point bye and that happened you would have the circumstance described.
    I've had this happen a few times at the Brisbane Club when a player is absent. Normally I try to re-pair games, but sometimes the other player prefers a forfeit win on the night. However, if the absent player has a good excuse for not contacting me, I give both players byes - a half-point one to the absent player, and a full-point one to the other player (since the game was never played, so doesn't count for rating anyway). It never occurred to me to score it as 1.0-0.5, which I assume would cause problems for rating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Rout View Post
    I've also never seen 3/4-1/4. Maybe if a game was forfeited and both players were partly responsible but one was considered more at fault then an arbiter might come up with that one.
    I've never heard of it either.

  13. #13
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I've had this happen a few times at the Brisbane Club when a player is absent. Normally I try to re-pair games, but sometimes the other player prefers a forfeit win on the night. However, if the absent player has a good excuse for not contacting me, I give both players byes - a half-point one to the absent player, and a full-point one to the other player (since the game was never played, so doesn't count for rating anyway). It never occurred to me to score it as 1.0-0.5, which I assume would cause problems for rating.
    I've never heard of it either.
    I would have thought forfeited games without a move being played should never be rated however they are entered in the tournament results.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    I would have thought forfeited games without a move being played should never be rated however they are entered in the tournament results.
    You're right - a score of 1.5-0.5 for an unplayed forfeit would have to be modified before rating anyway. Although it could - in theory - also be assigned to a game which was begun and then forfeited.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    * The arbiter can call flag fall in rapid or blitz if the arbiter observes it. (A4.5)
    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston
    Are they required/expected to?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    It only says "can" so I think it is entirely optional.
    The 2014 rules spelled out how a player should correctly claim a win on time. They did not mention whether the arbiter could or should call flag-fall, but there was no rule in 'Appendix A. Rapidplay' that overrode 6.8:

    Code:
    6.8      	
    A flag is considered to have fallen when the arbiter observes the fact or when either player has made a valid claim to that effect.
    There is nothing in the new 'Appendix A: Rapidplay' or 'Appendix B: Blitz' that contradicts this either. So I believe the arbiter should rule on flag-fall, whatever the time control. Some players may not be used to this: the new phrasing may reduce contention as it makes it clear that the arbiter is entitled to do so.
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