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  1. #46
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    At what stage was this announced to the players - it definitely isn't on the entry form?

    As far as I know, this is the only Australian event ever to use tie-breaks to split major prizes.
    It happened a long time ago in a Gold Coast event to the detriment of Smurf.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I suggest you complain to the CAQ. Splitting prizes using tie-breaks is not a good idea. But it's far worse if players weren't told about it until the actual prize-giving.
    Can the CAQ do anything about this? I hope so. Meanwhile, the tournament organiser should be shamed for paying one co-winnner $1,000 less than another.
    “The best part of adopting conservatism after years of leftism, by the way, is how much easier life becomes. If you’re a conservative, facts are generally all you need to establish a case or mount an argument. If you’re a leftist, however, you always have to find a way around the facts, which is why combative lefties always sound like lawyers knowingly representing a guilty client.”—Tim Blair

  2. #47
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    I certainly didn't see any mention of it.

    In fact, until late in the tourney I didn't even know what the rating divisions were (I could be at mistake here). Of course it did not matter to me, even if I was worried about rating divisions I wouldn't have even won the bog-standard-Stokes division in this one.

    cheers

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    It happened a long time ago in a Gold Coast event to the detriment of Smurf.
    I assume this was a rapid or blitz event, not a standard weekender?

    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Can the CAQ do anything about this? I hope so. Meanwhile, the tournament organiser should be shamed for paying one co-winnner $1,000 less than another.
    The CAQ is all-powerful and can do anything

    Seriously though, it could pass a regulation preventing this happening in the future. I don't think there's much else it could do (in practice). Although the event does appear to be in violation of Section 1Ab of the CAQ Code of Conduct:
    1) PROMOTING AND ENTERING AN EVENT
    A. Promotional Literature. The following conditions shall be strictly enforced by the promoter of an event.
    The Promoter (Organiser) of an approved CAQ event shall clearly state on all promotional literature and entry forms :
    a) The time controls for all players in the whole of the tournament.
    b) The prize(s) offered, and/ or the method of determination of prizes for the tournament. ...

  4. #49
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Although the event does appear to be in violation of Section 1Ab of the CAQ Code of Conduct:
    1) PROMOTING AND ENTERING AN EVENT
    A. Promotional Literature. The following conditions shall be strictly enforced by the promoter of an event.
    The Promoter (Organiser) of an approved CAQ event shall clearly state on all promotional literature and entry forms :
    a) The time controls for all players in the whole of the tournament.
    b) The prize(s) offered, and/ or the method of determination of prizes for the tournament. ...
    A useful condition there. I looked at the ACF Code of Ethics, as it is a Grand Prix event, but there isn't really anything explicit of a similar nature. I may be raising the issue for the future at the next Council meeting.

  5. #50
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    I believe although it is unorthodox, if advertised prior to the event could be acceptable however it all comes down to whether or not it was disclosed prior. If not players have the right to be upset by the outcome

  6. #51
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    Probably they didn't expect 3 people to be equal first
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  7. #52
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun94 View Post
    I believe although it is unorthodox, if advertised prior to the event could be acceptable however it all comes down to whether or not it was disclosed prior. If not players have the right to be upset by the outcome
    If not disclosed, does Brodie have the right to sue for the money he is entitled to as sharing 1st to 3rd prizes instead of just getting third place, a difference of $466.67? Or at least, does CAQ have the moral authority to force the organizers to make up the difference, especially if they are in violation of Section 1Ab of the CAQ Code of Conduct?
    “The best part of adopting conservatism after years of leftism, by the way, is how much easier life becomes. If you’re a conservative, facts are generally all you need to establish a case or mount an argument. If you’re a leftist, however, you always have to find a way around the facts, which is why combative lefties always sound like lawyers knowingly representing a guilty client.”—Tim Blair

  8. #53
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I assume this was a rapid or blitz event, not a standard weekender?
    I don't see that it makes any difference to the principle. The tie-break system was particularly crass in that instance anyway, since the two winners drew with each other and won the rest of their games.
    Last edited by Capablanca-Fan; 10-05-2017 at 07:26 AM.
    “The best part of adopting conservatism after years of leftism, by the way, is how much easier life becomes. If you’re a conservative, facts are generally all you need to establish a case or mount an argument. If you’re a leftist, however, you always have to find a way around the facts, which is why combative lefties always sound like lawyers knowingly representing a guilty client.”—Tim Blair

  9. #54
    CC Candidate Master ThebeJohnston's Avatar
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    I can't comment on whether it was disclosed this year, I just know last year they didn't use this system. Alex Wohl and James Morris got the same amount of money for =1st

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    I can't comment on whether it was disclosed this year, I just know last year they didn't use this system. Alex Wohl and James Morris got the same amount of money for =1st
    That's the way it should be. Whatever possessed them to make such a shameful change?
    “The best part of adopting conservatism after years of leftism, by the way, is how much easier life becomes. If you’re a conservative, facts are generally all you need to establish a case or mount an argument. If you’re a leftist, however, you always have to find a way around the facts, which is why combative lefties always sound like lawyers knowingly representing a guilty client.”—Tim Blair

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    At what stage was this announced to the players - it definitely isn't on the entry form?

    As far as I know, this is the only Australian event ever to use tie-breaks to split major prizes.

    I suggest you complain to the CAQ. Splitting prizes using tie-breaks is not a good idea. But it's far worse if players weren't told about it until the actual prize-giving.


    It was announced before the start of the last round! I definitely would not have risked 5 days if I had of known! since I took time off work.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    If not disclosed, does Brodie have the right to sue for the money he is entitled to as sharing 1st to 3rd prizes instead of just getting third place, a difference of $466.67? Or at least, does CAQ have the moral authority to force the organizers to make up the difference, especially if they are in violation of Section 1Ab of the CAQ Code of Conduct?
    In any case, I can not envisage such cases ending up in court. Have there been any of such cases happening previously (chess player taking organizers to court?). There have been instances before for instance where prize money was ''guaranteed'' but later on reduced due to relatively low number of entries.
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  13. #58
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodie View Post
    It was announced before the start of the last round! I definitely would not have risked 5 days if I had of known! since I took time off work.
    Shame on them! Definitely complain to CAQ as PB advises. A backup is to shame the organizers on Smurf's blog, because his latest article is Bad Tiebreaks.
    “The best part of adopting conservatism after years of leftism, by the way, is how much easier life becomes. If you’re a conservative, facts are generally all you need to establish a case or mount an argument. If you’re a leftist, however, you always have to find a way around the facts, which is why combative lefties always sound like lawyers knowingly representing a guilty client.”—Tim Blair

  14. #59
    Batoutahelius road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    If not disclosed, does Brodie have the right to sue for the money he is entitled to as sharing 1st to 3rd prizes instead of just getting third place, a difference of $466.67? Or at least, does CAQ have the moral authority to force the organizers to make up the difference, especially if they are in violation of Section 1Ab of the CAQ Code of Conduct?
    Maybe take it up with the first place winner?
    meep meep

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Maybe take it up with the first place winner?
    Maybe so, but it wasn't his fault.
    “The best part of adopting conservatism after years of leftism, by the way, is how much easier life becomes. If you’re a conservative, facts are generally all you need to establish a case or mount an argument. If you’re a leftist, however, you always have to find a way around the facts, which is why combative lefties always sound like lawyers knowingly representing a guilty client.”—Tim Blair

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