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  1. #106
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lost View Post
    Hi Garvinator,

    Regarding the concern of whether Guam should be allowed to participate in the Oceania region or not, you might want to research about their participation in the Micronesian Games and the Pacific Games and then you can question whether some other "nations" should participate.

    lost
    Wikipedia states for the Micronesia Games and Pacific Games:

    Competitors
    Participants include four sovereign countries (the Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Nauru, and Palau), a commonwealth in political union with the United States (the Northern Mariana Islands), an organized unincorporated territory of the United States (Guam), and the four constituent States of the Federated States of Micronesia (Chuuk, Pohnpei, Kosrae and Yap, which compete separately from one another).

    These ten countries, States and territories are all located within the Micronesian region of Oceania.

    All participants also take part in the Pacific Games, although the Federated States of Micronesia competes as a unified country there.
    So it does seem cut and dried that Guam and the other islands do 'belong' to the Oceania Zone.

    For the record. I was not for or against Guam being in the Oceania Zone, I just found it a bit of an oddity. But what I objecting to was that some voices were saying that since Guam was in the Oceania Zone and the likely host of this Zonal, it is too far away and our players should not support it as it is too difficult to get too. Or similar reasons.

    I felt that all Federations in the Oceania Zone have a responsibility to grow chess in the region, which means that once in a decade or so, the Zonal will be held in one of the smaller or more outer Federations.

    But instead of people bleating about not wanting to go to those countries because it is supposedly too difficult and they believe the event should always be held in Australia or New Zealand, as those two Federations have the largest players, this creates a greater impost on those from the smaller nations who are expected to travel all the time for every Zonal, instead of having the opportunity to host the Zonal once every six Zonals or so.

    In summary, I thought if players wanted to complain about Guam being awarded the Zonal, which since it is in the Oceania Zonal I do support and want to see it be successful, then the more obvious stance would be to ask why is Guam in the Oceania Zone when it is a US Overseas Territory and closer to Asia.

    But as Wikipedia has answered with the stance of the Micronesia and Pacific Games, they are all regarded as part of the Oceania Zone.

  2. #107
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I think all this could be expected when awarding the zonal to Guam....
    Does the geographical bearing have a bearing? Why, being close to the Philippines with many Filipinos working there?
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  3. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    Does the geographical bearing have a bearing? Why, being close to the Philippines with many Filipinos working there?
    This is an Oceania Zonal Championship -- players registered under Philippines are not eligible to participate.

    Guam has a total of 28 rated FIDE-registered players, some of whom may be Filipino citizens or expats. Guam's highest rated player is CM Elmer Prudente (2015). He is participating.

    Palau has a total of 106 rated FIDE-registered players, some of whom may be Filipino citizens or expats. Palau's highest rated player is CM Cyril Tomas Montel Jr. (1877). He is also participating.

    Participation from Australia and New Zealand will certainly be lower, due to the relative cost and difficulty of travelling to Guam. But for the `pointy end' to be strengthened at all will require more strong players from either Australia or New Zealand to enter. This may yet happen -- if I remember correctly, the 2013 Zonal held in Fiji was relatively strong.
    Last edited by Andrew Hardegen; 10-12-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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  4. #109
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    This is an Oceania Zonal Championship -- players registered under Philippines are not eligible to participate.

    Guam has a total of 28 rated FIDE-registered players, some of whom may be Filipino citizens or expats. Guam's highest rated player is CM Elmer Prudente (2015). He is participating.

    Palau has a total of 106 rated FIDE-registered players, some of whom may be Filipino citizens or expats. Palau's highest rated player is CM Cyril Tomas Montel Jr. (1877). He is also participating.

    Participation from Australia and New Zealand will certainly be lower, due to the relative cost and difficulty of travelling to Guam. But for the `pointy end' to be strengthened at all will require more strong players from either Australia or New Zealand to enter. This may yet happen -- if I remember correctly, the 2013 Zonal held in Fiji was relatively strong.
    Back a few months ago when some noisy people were complaining about Guam being the location for the 2019 Oceania Zonal, I said that instead of complaining about every Federation in Oceania having a responsibility to both host a zonal once every few 'turns', but also the responsibility of the other Federations to support their other Federations, that a players complaint might best be served in arguing that Guam should not be in the Oceania Zone at all.

    It was clearly shown to me that in other sporting competitions, that Guam and other Micronesia Nations compete in Oceania Zonal competitions, rather than with their purely geographic Asian neighbours.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    This is an Oceania Zonal Championship -- players registered under Philippines are not eligible to participate.

    Guam has a total of 28 rated FIDE-registered players, some of whom may be Filipino citizens or expats. Guam's highest rated player is CM Elmer Prudente (2015). He is participating.

    Palau has a total of 106 rated FIDE-registered players, some of whom may be Filipino citizens or expats. Palau's highest rated player is CM Cyril Tomas Montel Jr. (1877). He is also participating.

    Participation from Australia and New Zealand will certainly be lower, due to the relative cost and difficulty of travelling to Guam. But for the `pointy end' to be strengthened at all will require more strong players from either Australia or New Zealand to enter. This may yet happen -- if I remember correctly, the 2013 Zonal held in Fiji was relatively strong.
    Some may enter to ''buy''themselves a soft title but other than that...hard to envisage many strong player entering...
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  6. #111
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Some may enter to ''buy''themselves a soft title but other than that...hard to envisage many strong player entering...
    Michael, when Max comes back with the title and wallops you will your view change?
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  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    Michael, when Max comes back with the title and wallops you will your view change?
    Max is a GM already - nothing to do with soft titles.
    But again..the zonal has been awarded to Guam long time ago...and obviously won't move . I am more interested to know about the ''learning curve'' of the Oceania Chess Community...will there be more zonals held in ''Guams of the Oceania'' in future?
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  8. #113
    CC International Master Tony Dowden's Avatar
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    (Garvinator posted)
    ... but as Wikipedia has answered with the stance of the Micronesia and Pacific Games, they are all regarded as part of the Oceania Zone.
    Yes, culturally Micronesia, Melanesia and Polynesia have enduring links.
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  9. #114
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    But again..the zonal has been awarded to Guam long time ago...and obviously won't move . I am more interested to know about the ''learning curve'' of the Oceania Chess Community...will there be more zonals held in ''Guams of the Oceania'' in future?
    If you think about where each of the Zonals are likely to be held on a equal rotational basis, then it will look something like this:

    2021: Australia/New Zealand
    2023: Australia/New Zealand/Fiji (Aus or NZ that did not host in 2021 and Fiji having a shot
    2025: Fiji or another South Pacific Island Nation (Solomon Islands, Vanuatu) come to mind.

    PNG has also not been mentioned, so probably can be thrown into the mix here as well for 2025 and beyond if we are looking at many years away nations.

    As for the outlier nations like Guam and other nations part of Oceania, as you can see, it will be at least 2027 at the earliest before they get a mention. And still in that time Australia and New Zealand have hosted a second time. So you are looking at more like a 12 year gap. So make it 2029 before one of the outlier nations gets a run.

    Furthermore to this, quite a bit could depend on the New Caledonia second and third round independence votes. With the first vote only being 56/44% for staying with France and according the Noumea Accords a second Independence vote is due to 2020, it is quite possible that New Caledonia could vote to become independent in either that vote or in 2022.

    Which would then possibly see a new Country join Oceania and be eligible to host the Zonal. Being only two hours away from Australia and New Zealand, very attractive indeed.

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