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  1. #16
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Taking under consideration that Zsuzsanna Polgár has a Jewish background her stand in this sad affair is rather inexplicable.

    I would strongly encourage Garvinator to e-mail her the following paragraph taken from his post above
    If you have any evidence of travel to Israel, including an Israeli exit or entry stamp in your passport, you will be refused entry to Iran.
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  2. #17
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    Taking under consideration that Zsuzsanna Polgár has a Jewish background her stand in this sad affair is rather inexplicable.

    I would strongly encourage Garvinator to e-mail her the following paragraph taken from his post above
    This is not an issue for an individual like myself to contact Susan Polgar on. This is an issue for our National Federation to make formal contact on. As in letterheads, officially signed etc.

  3. #18
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    Taking under consideration that Zsuzsanna Polgár has a Jewish background her stand in this sad affair is rather inexplicable.

    I would strongly encourage Garvinator to e-mail her the following paragraph taken from his post above
    Quite a few countries have that. I read somewhere official-sounding prior to going to the UAE that the UAE had it, but it looks like that was a mistake and they do not (although there are cases of harassment on entry for travellers with Israeli stamps).

    Ways around it include: getting a new passport, having a second passport (countries aware of the issue often allow this) and also apparently Ben Gurion airport no longer stamps passports but instead issues the visa on separate paper.

  4. #19
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    Australian Government's position on travelling to Iran: http://smartraveller.gov.au/Countrie...ages/iran.aspx
    The same level of caution at present to a lot of other countries where tournaments are held, including Turkey, Russia and Malaysia.

  5. #20
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Susan Polgar on Facebook is claiming to have had her position misattributed:

    Media made up narratives
    I kept hearing in recent years about media bias and dishonesty. I never really paid attention to it until today. All these articles from major media sources either got the facts wrong or simply completely made them up!
    The bottom line is simple. No one from FIDE Commission for Women's Chess, including me, has made ANY comment to endorse the venue or the regime. In fact, I specifically said "If any player has a problem with it, she can and should voice her opinion to the Commission for Women's Chess or FIDE and we can address it in our next meeting." So far, Commission for Women's Chess (WOM) has NOT received any official complaint from any of the 64 participants.
    But that did not stop the media and tons of clueless people on social media to chime in and insult me, members of the Women's Commission, and the organizers. And people wonder why there are wars and conflicts all over the world. People do not even take time to read the facts before shooting their mouths off. Disgusting! Here are just some samples of completely made up stuff:
    "Meanwhile, FIDE’s Commission for Women’s Chess has urged participants to accept the hijab regulations in respect of “cultural differences.”
    http://nymag.com/…/female-chess-play...rced-to…
    "American Grandmaster Susan Polgar, chairman of Fide's Commission for Women's Chess, has said the players need to respect ‘cultural differences’."
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/…/World-c...n-told-…
    "In what can be described as a shocking reaction, FIDE’s Commission for Women's Chess has asked chess players to respect the culture of the land."
    http://www.sportskeeda.com/…/fide-fa...-female…
    "Fide's Commission for Women's Chess, meanwhile, called on participants to respect “cultural differences” and accept the regulations."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/female-...cuse-g…/
    "Chess Governing Body to Female Grand Masters: Wear the Hijab or Else"
    http://spectator.org/chess-governing...grand-…/
    "Women competitors must wear hijabs at chess world championship, oddly awarded to Iran"
    https://boingboing.net/…/women-compe...t-wear-hi.html
    "Fide held a smaller Grand Prix event in Iran earlier this year where female players were required to wear the hijab. The Telegraph understands several players were left angry about having to use the scarf."
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/…/female-...cuse-g…/
    (note: links above will mostly not work)

  6. #21
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Another comment from Susan Polgar:

    Please read the opposing views of a very important subject (and please be respectful to the women from different views)
    To clear the record, I am Jewish and I have never supported the Iranian regime. Most of the world, including me, strongly denounce the extremists of all religions. However, we cannot simply punish individuals who are themselves victims of these extremists without carefully learning all the facts and hearing their sides.
    What I am asking is for people to take their time and read the opposing views. We have now heard from some players who qualified for the upcoming Women's World Championship. One demanded boycott while the other pleaded for the event to go on.
    The Commission for Women's Chess (WOM) has not taken any official position. We are actively talking to female players who qualified for the upcoming Women's World Championship for their feedback.
    WOM was NOT involved in the bidding process, nor were we involved in the process to award the bid. We had no vote. I personally found out about it after the fact. The delegates from 159 countries were in Baku at the General Assembly. They were told of this bid, and it was their place to voice their objections or concerns. None of the 159 delegates representing their countries, including the United States, objected.
    Therefore, everyone who questions the decision to award the Women's World Championship to the Iranian Chess Federation should direct their inquiries to these delegates, including the US which represents Nazi Paikidze who demanded for a boycott.
    It is very unfortunate that countless people do not know the facts or details used various social media to attack, demean, insult, and threaten members of WOM when we have absolutely nothing to do with it. Our job is to find out the facts, listen to views and opinions of all parties, then try to come up with what is best for women's chess worldwide. We simply cannot take a rushed judgement without looking at the whole picture, especially when this can potentially harm many female chess players. [..]

  7. #22
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    A recent winner of the knockout world championship Ushenina played in Israel this July...I assume she won't be able to play...
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    The FIDE statement fails to note that concerns were raised and assurances given, even though no-one outright voted against. As usual with these things there is a lack of a verbatim transcript. I believe there was ambiguity in that the Iranian delegate said "they can just wear a scarf" without specifying headscarf; even so, the connotations of "headscarf" and "hijab" are not necessarily the same.

    Australia doesn't have a policy of objecting to the award of tournaments on human rights grounds. Possibly we should have one so that I as delegate can just vote against every award of any tournament to a country on that list, but I suspect that if it was consistent it would exclude quite a lot of countries to which tournaments are often awarded. I will raise it at the next Council meeting to see if the ACF wants to form a policy on it.
    Human rights grounds are very subjective topic.Different countries got different ideas about human rights.

  9. #24
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    A recent winner of the knockout world championship Ushenina played in Israel this July...I assume she won't be able to play...
    I assume she won't be playing but for a different reason - she didn't qualify. Unless she gets one of two FIDE wildcards.

  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Polgár Zsuzsanna's current argument against Nigel Short is just a circumstantial ad hominem one about his previous coaching in Iran. It doesn't address any of the substantial points, e.g. FIDE violating its constitution in forcing women to adopt a religious symbol.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  11. #26
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Ways around it include: getting a new passport, having a second passport (countries aware of the issue often allow this) and also apparently Ben Gurion airport no longer stamps passports but instead issues the visa on separate paper.
    I found out in Denmark, where as in France and NZ they don't stamp your passports, that all information regarding your past travels can be checked biometrically, even if you haven't used your new or renewed passport for those trips. The information as in your travelling history is included.

    At Ben Gurion, as an Australian citizen (and citizen of quite a number of other countries) you don' t have to pay the dreaded $23 for the visa, since Feb this year and you actually don't need a visa anymore if you stay there for three months or less.
    All you need is your passport and a return ticket.

    There will definitely be restrictions if you try to enter Israel from Gaza as it is listed by Israel, (Aus and US as well) as controlled by Hamas - a terrorist organisation.
    I am not sure if Israel would try to restrict anyone from entering their territory for sporting, cultural or similar events though.
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  12. #27
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Polgár Zsuzsanna's current argument against Nigel Short is just a circumstantial ad hominem one about his previous coaching in Iran. It doesn't address any of the substantial points, e.g. FIDE violating its constitution in forcing women to adopt a religious symbol.
    I assume the constitutional argument concerns this bit:

    1.2.

    FIDE is concerned exclusively with chess activities. FIDE is democratically established and bases itself on the principles of equal rights of its members. FIDE is a non-profit making organisation. It rejects discriminatory treatment for national, political, racial, social or religious reasons or on account of gender. It observes strict neutrality in the internal affairs of the national chess federations.

    FIDE events (competitions, congresses, meetings) may be hosted only by Federations where free access is generally assured to representatives of all Federations.
    The General Assembly may take exceptions for reasons of state of war or severe violence between countries, only on a three quarter majority vote.

  13. #28
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I assume the constitutional argument concerns this bit:

    1.2.

    FIDE is concerned exclusively with chess activities. FIDE is democratically established and bases itself on the principles of equal rights of its members. FIDE is a non-profit making organisation. It rejects discriminatory treatment for national, political, racial, social or religious reasons or on account of gender. It observes strict neutrality in the internal affairs of the national chess federations.

    FIDE events (competitions, congresses, meetings) may be hosted only by Federations where free access is generally assured to representatives of all Federations.
    The General Assembly may take exceptions for reasons of state of war or severe violence between countries, only on a three quarter majority vote.
    I presume so. As the words read, Short is clearly right.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    I presume so. As the words read, Short is clearly right.
    Is he? The burka - if it's required, which is not clear - is not a religious symbol, and presumably clothing of equivalent modesty would be an acceptable replacement. He would be on stronger ground in arguing that free access would not be given to representatives of all Federations - which seems to be a potential problem.

  15. #30
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Is he?
    Of course.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The burka - if it's required, which is not clear - is not a religious symbol,
    Of course it is. That's why opponents of burqa bans claim that it is an assault on religious freedom or "Islamophobic".

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    and presumably clothing of equivalent modesty would be an acceptable replacement. He would be on stronger ground in arguing that free access would not be given to representatives of all Federations - which seems to be a potential problem.
    That's also an important consideration, given that Israelis are banned and other countries warn against travelling to this Mullahcracy.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

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