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  1. #1
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    How strong is the NSWCA

    A NSW player has received a 2 year ban for a serious matter at the NSW Open. That player continues to play plenty of chess and the NSWCA continues to process his games for rating free of charge.

    What sought of state Association would behave like this. I think that the NSWCA needs a room of mirrors.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Bill should just not rate any games where player X is involved.

    AR

  3. #3
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    That player played in the Fischer's Ghost tournament.

    It was my understanding that this player was banned from all NSWCA events... not non NSWCA events. And i thought that his games would not be rated...... But i sent it in and obviously it got rated.....
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  4. #4
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    So, the question still stands. Does the NSWCA run NSW chess or not. Surely if they do, it would not ban a player for 2 years and then continue to process his games for rating, free!

  5. #5
    CC resident nutcase Trent Parker's Avatar
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    Well......
    to quote Bill from another thread...... what is submitted for rating by the acf will be published by the ACF. Given that i emailed the results directly to Bill in order to make the December ratings, i guess it is my fault for submitting the games.
    GO THE DRAGONS!
    GO Western Sydney Wanderers!
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski's signature
    God exists. Short and to the point.
    This is the reason I do not wade into religion threads.

  6. #6
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the chess nut
    ... i guess it is my fault for submitting the games.
    No. it is not your fault. The system is faulty. The SP file should have been forwared by BG back to Carot, who should vet the player details, remove player X and then return the modified SP file to BG.

    If this di not happen, then the fault lies in the design of the submission/rating system.

  7. #7
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    The NSWCA banned the player from NSWCA events and by extension from ACF events.

    The NSWCA has no authority to stop other organisers from allowing the player to compete in their events.

    Other players in such events would reasonably expect their games against the banned player to be rated.

    As such if the event is submitted for rating all games are processed.

    There is no facility in the rating system to rate only one side of a game, nor are there any plans by the ACF Rating Officers to introduce such a facility.

  8. #8
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the chess nut
    Well......
    to quote Bill from another thread...... what is submitted for rating by the acf will be published by the ACF. Given that i emailed the results directly to Bill in order to make the December ratings, i guess it is my fault for submitting the games.
    Its not your fault, its just Sweeney being a total fool as usual.

  9. #9
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    There is no facility in the rating system to rate only one side of a game, nor are there any plans by the ACF Rating Officers to introduce such a facility.
    So there is a problem with the system - and you, with a brain the size of a planet, cannot fix it.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The NSWCA banned the player from NSWCA events and by extension from ACF events.
    This part is clear.

    The NSWCA has no authority to stop other organisers from allowing the player to compete in their events.
    But this part needs drill-down. In VICTORIA, the CV only approve an event for rating purposes if it meets criteria laid down by CV. CV obviously feel they have the power to prescribe this. Are you saying the NSWCA has not laid any criteria? Or a criterion in respect to unaffiliated players, or a criterion in respect to banned players.

    Other players in such events would reasonably expect their games against the banned player to be rated.
    That would not be my expectation as an player affiliated with the State structure. I would expect that if my State took the extreme position of banning a player then I would not be forced to play him in an approved event. I would expect that the privileges of membership (i.e rating) would be withdrawn during the penalty period.


    As such if the event is submitted for rating all games are processed.
    And because of the expectation I described above, I would expect that only games between non-banned would be processed.

    There is no facility in the rating system to rate only one side of a game, nor are there any plans by the ACF Rating Officers to introduce such a facility.
    I don't think Matt was proposing this solution of rate_one_side.
    And now that I see you list this solution, I would not be suppporting the proposition either. I am against what you list.
    The game should not be rated if a banned player is involved.

    starter

  11. #11
    CC International Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The NSWCA banned the player from NSWCA events and by extension from ACF events.

    The NSWCA has no authority to stop other organisers from allowing the player to compete in their events.

    Other players in such events would reasonably expect their games against the banned player to be rated.

    As such if the event is submitted for rating all games are processed.

    There is no facility in the rating system to rate only one side of a game, nor are there any plans by the ACF Rating Officers to introduce such a facility.
    I think that's true, and ignoring games has an impact on the integrity of the rating system, which is always a difficulty in using the rating system as a form of leverage. However I'm not sure it's the full story.

    In most instances tournaments are not organised by non-State Association bodies because the organisers are actively hostile to the association but simply to provide additional options for players, and those organisers might reasonably be expected to enforce State association bans if they are officially notified of them.

    Apart from the issue of good citizenship, it would be in their interest to do so; I can imagine an organiser being in a certain amount of legal trouble if an incident occurred involving a player they had admitted knowing he was banned for intimidatory behaviour elsewhere.

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster arosar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The NSWCA banned the player from NSWCA events and by extension from ACF events.
    OK . . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The NSWCA has no authority to stop other organisers from allowing the player to compete in their events.
    I don't accept this Bill. Does not the NSWCA, 'control' the playing of chess in NSW?

    In any case, you may not have this 'authority' but you certainly have the 'power' to discourage other organisers from inviting player X by simply not rating any games where that player is involved.

    Besides Bill, many - if not most (EDIT: if not all, even) - of player X's opponents are likely to be NSWCA members anyway. Therefore, to my mind you certainly have leverage.

    You following me mate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Other players in such events would reasonably expect their games against the banned player to be rated.
    See above.

    There is nothing to stop from you making a definitive action that any game played by player X will not be rated. It's really that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    There is no facility in the rating system to rate only one side of a game, nor are there any plans by the ACF Rating Officers to introduce such a facility.
    There is no need for such a facility. We're trying to ban a player and making it unattractive to have him both as participant and opponent.

    Are you with me mate?

    AR
    Last edited by arosar; 09-12-2004 at 11:17 AM.

  13. #13
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    As I said we have no authority over the other organiser.
    We would like the organiser to not permit the banned player to compete in their event, but we cannot enforce this.

    We were also unsure of the legal issues of such an action as stating up front that we would not rate any event in which the banned player participated.

    Clearly there is no problem banning him from our events.
    However by stating we would not rate events in which he played we would be quite possibly forcing the organiser to reject his participation so that the event could be rated. This is almost like some sort of secondary boycott.

    Personally I would be in favour of refusing to rate events in which a banned player competes, but the Council felt that such an action was unfair to those other players who competed in the event as well as possible legal issues.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    As I said we have no authority over the other organiser.
    We would like the organiser to not permit the banned player to compete in their event, but we cannot enforce this.
    I think you have authorities in that you require an event to have APPROVED status before you accept for rating. You probably have a form to fill in. I know Gazza has a super form; do you want a copy?

    I accept for the moment your current criteria may not exclude banned players from entering events. Let us leave this issue for a while and look at the other....JUST DON'T RATE games if a banned player is involved. You can do this.


    We were also unsure of the legal issues of such an action as stating up front that we would not rate any event in which the banned player participated.
    But how about the suggestion just to exclude games by the banned player.


    Clearly there is no problem banning him from our events.
    Good


    However by stating we would not rate events in which he played we would be quite possibly forcing the organiser to reject his participation so that the event could be rated. This is almost like some sort of secondary boycott.
    But how about the suggestion just to exclude games by the banned player.


    starter

  15. #15
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    I think you have authorities in that you require an event to have APPROVED status before you accept for rating. You probably have a form to fill in. I know Gazza has a super form; do you want a copy?
    Thanks, but no thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by starter
    I accept for the moment your current criteria may not exclude banned players from entering events. Let us leave this issue for a while and look at the other....JUST DON'T RATE games if a banned player is involved. You can do this.

    But how about the suggestion just to exclude games by the banned player.


    But how about the suggestion just to exclude games by the banned player.
    I answered that already. The council felt it was unfair to the banned players opponents not to rate the games.

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