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Thread: Asylum seekers

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Why would we need to house refugees in our homes when Australia has massive amounts of unused space? And refugees lower the crime rate, so more refugees would be good for Australia.
    Why would we need to house is another question...my point is about ''noble intentions'' stated but afterwards taking offers of promised assistance back. I think the message this study sends us is rather clear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Why would we need to house is another question...my point is about ''noble intentions'' stated but afterwards taking offers of promised assistance back. I think the message this study sends us is rather clear.
    It's not a "study" - it's Russian propaganda.

    EDIT: More on RT.
    “The annoying thing about RT is that some of the reporting is very good and genuine,” says Misha Glenny, the author of McMafia. “The trick is trying to differentiate that from the propaganda. The Russians have moved on since the days of Pravda, the Soviet Communist party newspaper, or Radio Moscow International during the cold war – at least then you knew it was all guff, coming out of the Ideological Secretariat. RT is designed to confuse and muddy the waters. That mixture of genuine and guff leaves you baffled and disoriented, which, I guess, is the point.”
    Last edited by Patrick Byrom; 24-03-2019 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Further details added.

  3. #813
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    It's not a "study" - it's Russian propaganda.

    EDIT: More on RT.
    “The annoying thing about RT is that some of the reporting is very good and genuine,” says Misha Glenny, the author of McMafia. “The trick is trying to differentiate that from the propaganda. The Russians have moved on since the days of Pravda, the Soviet Communist party newspaper, or Radio Moscow International during the cold war – at least then you knew it was all guff, coming out of the Ideological Secretariat. RT is designed to confuse and muddy the waters. That mixture of genuine and guff leaves you baffled and disoriented, which, I guess, is the point.”
    Given current state of affairs in Russia - hard to imagine Russians being too bothered about Refugee issues in Sweden (and Henrik can confirm there are ''issues'' since he visits Sweden regularly). Rather than dismiss the study/experiment (you can call it any way you like) as propaganda...may be we could ask ourselves if real people were asked a real question of whether they would ''take a refugee' home'' or not...If these are the real people who first genuinely agreed and then refused. I do not see how it takes any value from the message.

    And my main point remains: I would love to see this in Australia.

    This concept can be developed further. For instance: those who claim that there should be more temporary public housing as they are crying when they are watching people living in poor conditions can may be create a register of Good Samaritans who are going to welcome homeless into their houses to live for some time.
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  4. #814
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Rather than dismiss the study/experiment (you can call it any way you like) as propaganda...may be we could ask ourselves if real people were asked a real question of whether they would ''take a refugee' home'' or not...If these are the real people who first genuinely agreed and then refused. I do not see how it takes any value from the message.
    Depends on how you ask. If the study stunt is trying to get the negative result, then yes you would just approach random people in the street and get the expected refusal.

    You could ask me if I would be likely to own car insurance, I would say yes, but if you try to sell it to me in the street there would be 0% chance I would buy it there.

    The same people who say no in the street, if you ask them in a proper way maybe they would say yes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Depends on how you ask. If the study stunt is trying to get the negative result, then yes you would just approach random people in the street and get the expected refusal.

    You could ask me if I would be likely to own car insurance, I would say yes, but if you try to sell it to me in the street there would be 0% chance I would buy it there.

    The same people who say no in the street, if you ask them in a proper way maybe they would say yes.
    I am suggesting not even asking random people but to increase chances of positive responses to ''adopting a homeless/troubled person'' - limit scope of the study to those who believe that society/social system/government currently fails to address needs of the troubled individuals properly and believe that much more should be done to assist. I do not think we are can talk about 100% or 0% outcome. But would love to see the %age.

    I can think also think of further studies that may emerge out of it .
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Given current state of affairs in Russia - hard to imagine Russians being too bothered about Refugee issues in Sweden (and Henrik can confirm there are ''issues'' since he visits Sweden regularly).
    RT's propaganda isn't designed for Russians. Its programs are intended to 'disrupt' other countries by amplifying controversies. You obviously haven't been following current events for the last four years.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Rather than dismiss the study/experiment (you can call it any way you like) as propaganda...
    It's not a study or experiment - it's a stunt (as road runner said). Experiments/studies are designed to find out the truth; this is just propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    ... may be we could ask ourselves if real people were asked a real question of whether they would ''take a refugee' home'' or not...If these are the real people who first genuinely agreed and then refused. I do not see how it takes any value from the message.
    If you want to determine this, it can be done by a properly conducted survey.
    Last edited by Patrick Byrom; 25-03-2019 at 12:33 PM.

  7. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I am suggesting not even asking random people but to increase chances of positive responses to ''adopting a homeless/troubled person'' - limit scope of the study to those who believe that society/social system/government currently fails to address needs of the troubled individuals properly and believe that much more should be done to assist. I do not think we are can talk about 100% or 0% outcome. But would love to see the %age. I can think also think of further studies that may emerge out of it .
    Those people who believe that the police are not doing enough about African gangs can be asked if they would join the police force themselves and help out. When will you be signing up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Those people who believe that the police are not doing enough about African gangs can be asked if they would join the police force themselves and help out. When will you be signing up?
    I never claimed i want to join the force. It is a totally different matter.

    Would you want unqualified people working with police force? Taking come a homeless person...does not require qualifications...some people do it...just not many.

    I would not take people I do not personally know into my house if they have a questionable background. I also would not take them into my street (my street where i live is a small court) to decrease personal risks!

    So people who are happy to, can volunteer.
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  9. #819
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I am suggesting not even asking random people but to increase chances of positive responses to ''adopting a homeless/troubled person'' - limit scope of the study to those who believe that society/social system/government currently fails to address needs of the troubled individuals properly and believe that much more should be done to assist. I do not think we are can talk about 100% or 0% outcome. But would love to see the %age.

    I can think also think of further studies that may emerge out of it .
    But if you phrase the question that way, it would be perfectly open to people, who believe that the government should be doing more, to refuse to take people on themselves.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I never claimed i want to join the force. It is a totally different matter. Would you want unqualified people working with police force? Taking come a homeless person...does not require qualifications...some people do it...just not many.
    Housing a homeless person could actually require specialised skills and training, depending on the reasons why they're homeless. But I wasn't suggesting you become a beat cop; you presumably have training in IT that could be useful to them in an auxiliary basis.

    But let's lower the bar. If you say you want to do something about Sudanese 'gangs', you would logically vote for the parties promising to take tougher measures against them, wouldn't you?
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Re elections: This is what I posted on facebook:Labor made some lovely promises during the campaign. If Only there was a slight chance they keep them, I would vote for them...but of course they will not . On the other hand, Liberals are becoming Socialist as well, so effectively - voters were out of Choices - they were choosing between Socialist Labour that is at least known to be Socialist, Liberals wo are trying to be more Socialist and Greens who have no idea what Economic Policy is (they probably need to google word Economic)...so all in all - unfortunately the Labour Win is Rather Logical!

  11. #821
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Housing a homeless person could actually require specialised skills and training, depending on the reasons why they're homeless. But I wasn't suggesting you become a beat cop; you presumably have training in IT that could be useful to them in an auxiliary basis.

    But let's lower the bar. If you say you want to do something about Sudanese 'gangs', you would logically vote for the parties promising to take tougher measures against them, wouldn't you?
    Depends what else the parties are proposing. I would support parties taking tougher measures against them. But what if the same party that proposes tougher measures against them supports other polices that I do not approve of?
    Re contributing IT training, been involved in training International student groups + submitting training materials to Khan academy etc. so would be happy to help.

    I am happy to help people who are ready to change their lives for better rather than parasites who want to waste their lives despite having options available. Btw, this is why BC announced some months ago that we are going to assist International Graduates with Job search!

    P.S. I think readiness to get trained/study skills that increase employability is one of the key factors to be examined when assessing how genuine someone is in his desire to change life for better.
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  12. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Depends what else the parties are proposing. I would support parties taking tougher measures against them. But what if the same party that proposes tougher measures against them supports other polices that I do not approve of?
    Fair enough. But the same could apply to those Swedes withdrawing their offer to house a refugee. They may support the idea in general, but not be in favour of a specific refugee.

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Re contributing IT training, been involved in training International student groups + submitting training materials to Khan academy etc. so would be happy to help. I am happy to help people who are ready to change their lives for better rather than parasites who want to waste their lives despite having options available. Btw, this is why BC announced some months ago that we are going to assist International Graduates with Job search!
    Excellent!

  13. #823
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Fair enough. But the same could apply to those Swedes withdrawing their offer to house a refugee. They may support the idea in general, but not be in favour of a specific refugee.

    Excellent!
    Political parties are different from people obviously. Political Parties are far better known entities.

    In fact one problem that I see in Australia is a vacuum in the right wing ...we need a party that focuses not on the issues of race/nationality/politics but on improving economic growth and will rely on professionals, para-professionals and business people who are committed to making our economy better rather than ''making the world a better place''. Stronger economy = more opportunities and better standard of living.
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  14. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    In fact one problem that I see in Australia is a vacuum in the right wing ...we need a party that focuses not on the issues of race/nationality/politics but on improving economic growth and will rely on professionals, para-professionals and business people who are committed to making our economy better rather than ''making the world a better place''. Stronger economy = more opportunities and better standard of living.
    The term you're looking for is "technocracy" - the LDP is probably the closest to this in Australia. Although focusing on Sudanese gangs is not a good example of ignoring the issue of race.

  15. #825
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    The term you're looking for is "technocracy" - the LDP is probably the closest to this in Australia. Although focusing on Sudanese gangs is not a good example of ignoring the issue of race.
    I am happy to focus on ALL THE GANGS (including the Sudanese ones). One thing i am sure about though - the issue of Gangs should not be ignored due to political correctness.

    Interesting that you mentioned LDP I actually joined it and was a member a while ago . Unfortunately, even LDP does not fit my views perfectly or even near perfectly but yes, in the current political climate...possibly yes.
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