View Poll Results: Should the Laws be changed to allow writing a move before playing it?

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  • Yes, but player should be required to play the move written down

    3 18.75%
  • Yes, without a strict requirement to play the move written

    1 6.25%
  • No

    12 75.00%
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  1. #1
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    [POLL ADDED] Dvalishvili defaulted for writing move before moving in Aeroflot Open

    Didn't see it mentioned here, overshadowed by So and Nigalidze perhaps, but in the Aeroflot Open early this month IM Pavel Dvalishvili was defaulted by IA Gijssen in a won position against IM Orkhan Abdulov, for having repeatedly written his move before making it (there had been prior warnings though how many is unclear from the accounts I've seen). Coverage in section 2 here:

    https://chess24.com/en/read/news/wes...cheater-caught

    Those on this board who follow Russian-language chess media may know more about this.

  2. #2
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    Aren't you allowed to do that in case you change your mind, and then you would have to scribble it out and write the new one, that would make the sheet messy.
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  3. #3
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlin View Post
    Aren't you allowed to do that in case you change your mind, and then you would have to scribble it out and write the new one, that would make the sheet messy.
    That is what people used to do a lot but it was banned about 10 years ago. The reason wasn't messy scoring but that some people were gaining an advantage in avoiding blunders by doing it.

    It could also lead to unfair situations where a player would taunt the opponent by writing down a bad move then not playing it.

  4. #4
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    What if you wrote your move down wrong on the sheet, not matching the one you actually played ?? What would happen if it wasn't detected untill the game was over?
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  5. #5
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlin View Post
    What if you wrote your move down wrong on the sheet, not matching the one you actually played ?? What would happen if it wasn't detected untill the game was over?
    When the game is over it's over. Score sheet irregularities are common but minor offenses at best anyway. So during a game an arbiter might instruct a player to correct them. After a game generally no one much cares. But these irregularities would till be made after the move was made at the board, not before.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
    CC Candidate Master slyall's Avatar
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    How about this for an excuse:

    " I was going to claim a draw by 3-fold repetition but just after writing it I realized that I couldn't make the claim. "

  7. #7
    CC International Master Agent Smith's Avatar
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    I think it's hard for some old timers to let go of. (Edit - he's ~ 41)
    My chess partner does it, despite being a stickler for the rules, and i told him it was illegal.
    Last edited by Agent Smith; 17-04-2015 at 05:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    For some players it seems to be as hard to quit as smoking.

    Very strangely after repeatedly reading the riot act to players about this in last year's Tas Open I did it myself in a game ... on move 1!

  9. #9
    CC International Master
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    Pavel, with whom I played in the same tournaments in 1995 and have experience chatting to over the years, has problems with his eyesight. That makes him somehow vulnerable and partly because of that he continues to record his moves in advance. He is also quite excitable by a chess game and simply forgot when he was warned by the arbiter about non-recording.

    He is one of these people whom everybody likes. In particular, he is famous for giving Valentina Gunina a draw after she blundered a rook in a position where she was better. Even though he was always recording his moves in advance, nobody has complained before that particular game. In round 8 he got an opponent who similar to Akobian was fishing for a win at any cost. Well, I guess it is a new world of chess where players are playing both on and off chess board.

  10. #10
    CC International Master Kaitlin's Avatar
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    Soon you won't need to record your move... the chess board will have a memory chip
    .. this Caketin is full of little spiders and watermelon seeds.....

    ..Chess is all about fear and psychology

    ..Chess is like an exam..... you havent studied for

    ..If you're good at Chess it means you are very intelligent and could potentialy do great things
    ..... but that you might have wasted that playing way too much chess

  11. #11
    CC International Master Agent Smith's Avatar
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    It'd make some things easier alright.

  12. #12
    CC International Master Jesper Norgaard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slyall View Post
    How about this for an excuse:

    " I was going to claim a draw by 3-fold repetition but just after writing it I realized that I couldn't make the claim. "
    Not a good excuse, because the 3-fold repetition 9.2(a) is explicitly pardoned in the rule 8.1(a): "It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2, or 9.3 or adjourning a game according to Appendix E.1 a."

    So writing the move in advance and claiming a draw by 3-fold repetition of position is perfectly legal, while writing your move in advance of making it on the board is illegal for all other moves.
    Chess well played is imagination, calculation, observation, experience and memorization in order of importance.

  13. #13
    CC FIDE Master Keong Ang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slyall View Post
    How about this for an excuse:

    " I was going to claim a draw by 3-fold repetition but just after writing it I realized that I couldn't make the claim. "
    It could be deemed to be a 3-fold claim and after finding it to be incorrect, you would be forced to make the move and your opponent given 2 extra minutes.
    Otherwise you would be penalised for writing moves in advance.
    If the arbiter thinks you are just being difficult, maybe subtract all your time and leave you with just a minute as a penalty?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesper Norgaard View Post
    Not a good excuse, because the 3-fold repetition 9.2(a) is explicitly pardoned in the rule 8.1(a): "It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2, or 9.3 or adjourning a game according to Appendix E.1 a."

    So writing the move in advance and claiming a draw by 3-fold repetition of position is perfectly legal, while writing your move in advance of making it on the board is illegal for all other moves.
    It would probably be better for a player to admit writing the move in advance than to try to excuse it as a "cancelled" 3-fold claim. A warning is probably the lighter penalty.

    It would be hilarious if the move written in advance was the worst possible move since it would result in 3-fold repetition. When any other move would lead to a simple win for the player very shortly!
    IA Keong Ang



    "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." Abraham Lincoln

  14. #14
    CC FIDE Master
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    rule 8.1(a): "It is forbidden to write the moves in advance ...."

    This wording doesn't seem to be very precise to me.
    What if I write only one move in advance? That doesn't seem to be in breach of the rule as it is one move not "moves". Presumably they meant to write "any move or moves".
    What if I write a move but play a different move? In that case I don't think the move written is "in advance".
    Last edited by jammo; 18-04-2015 at 10:01 AM.
    Still searching for Bobby Fischer....
    and fighting against those humourless bureaucrats who are forever lost in the minutiae.

  15. #15
    CC FIDE Master Keong Ang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post
    rule 8.1(a): "It is forbidden to write the moves in advance ...."

    This wording doesn't seem to be very precise to me.
    What if I write only one move in advance? That doesn't seem to be in breach of the rule as it is one move not "moves". Presumably they meant to write "any move or moves".

    What if I write a move but play a different move? In that case I don't think the move written is "in advance".
    Article8.1.a
    In the course of play each player is required to record his own moves and those of his opponent in the correct manner, move after move, as clearly and legibly as possible, in the algebraic notation (Appendix C), on the ‘scoresheet’ prescribed for the competition. It is forbidden to write the moves in advance, unless the player is claiming a draw according to Article 9.2, or 9.3 or adjourning a game according to Appendix E.1 a.

    It is clear enough in the context of the whole of article8.1.a.

    Writing a move but playing a different move is a bigger offence as it could be seen as analysing as well as attempting to circumvent touch-move rules.
    IA Keong Ang



    "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly." Abraham Lincoln

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