View Poll Results: Would you deliberately play an illegal move in blitz if no other way to avoid losing?

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  • Have done so and would do so again

    0 0%
  • Have done so but would not do so again

    1 7.69%
  • Haven't done so but wouldn't rule it out

    4 30.77%
  • Haven't done so and would never do so

    8 61.54%
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  1. #1
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Would you deliberately play an illegal move in blitz?

    In a minor blitz tournament this week I (white) played Nb6 checking my opponent's king on d7 with the idea that after ...Bxb6 I would play Rxd6 (pawn) check (I had doubled rooks on the d-file), followed by Rxb6 which was protected by a pawn on a5, the combination winning a pawn.

    My opponent played ...Bxb6 but after picking up my rook to play Rxd6 I noticed a serious problem: my king on g1 was in check. Had I noticed it before picking up the rook I could play axb6 with no serious harm done. But having picked up the rook I was obliged to play either Rd4 or Rf2 both of which left me a rook down. As my opponent was short of time and there was no increment I didn't resign, but I eventually lost anyway.

    After the game my opponent said that had I simply played Rxd6 immediately he did not think he would have noticed he was in check and I would have got away with it. I said that once I noticed I was in check, I was simply too rule-abiding to deliberately play an illegal move even if it was clearly in my interests to do so. (Quite possibly had I not noticed I was in check, he wouldn't have noticed either and I would have won the game.)

    I am interested to see what others think about the issue of deliberately playing an illegal move in blitz. Do people think that it is an unacceptable form of cheating, or does anyone reckon that it is OK to deliberately break the rules in blitz if you are willing to accept the punishment of loss of game if caught?

    I've made the poll a private poll in the interests of honest answers. I've also made it the most extreme case possible: any legal move will definitely lose, but an illegal move will only lose if the opponent sees it and claims.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 15-04-2015 at 01:14 PM.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    I voted haven't done so but would not rule out. Having done similar underhand in previous games of blitz I could not rule out. But would never knowingly do cheating in classic games though have made genuine mistakes to my advantage in gambling games to suspicion.
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  3. #3
    Batoutahelius road runner's Avatar
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    In casual skittles would do things like move pawns 1.5 squares at a time in queening races. Or "creative" knight moves, bishops swapping colours things like that to see if the opponent is paying attention in time scrambles or not. Not in tournament or rated though.
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  4. #4
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    I would never do it ..but can think of at least 2 Australian IMs who have done it before. One of them has been doing it on regular basis.
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  5. #5
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    I think this thread conversation does need to be confined to discussions about tournaments or similar games, where standings and prizes are at stake, your actions affect others, where there is an arbiter, and a consequence for breaking the laws of chess. And other consequences as well.

    So social games should not be considered.

  6. #6
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garvinator View Post
    I think this thread conversation does need to be confined to discussions about tournaments or similar games, where standings and prizes are at stake, your actions affect others, where there is an arbiter, and a consequence for breaking the laws of chess. And other consequences as well.

    So social games should not be considered.
    Basically yes. People are welcome to comment on social games if they want to but the poll question should be taken to refer to tournament play (of whatever level, not necessarily rated.)

  7. #7
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    I have actually seen Aus blitz championshop play-off decided this way some years ago
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  8. #8
    CC Grandmaster Elliott Renzies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I have actually seen Aus blitz championshop play-off decided this way some years ago
    was it noticed by / reported to the DOP?
    Then again if the play-off was 'decided' that way ...
    Last edited by Elliott Renzies; 19-04-2015 at 01:27 PM.
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  9. #9
    CC Grandmaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    was it noticed by / reported to the DOP?
    Then again if the play-off was 'decided' that way ...
    what can DOP do if other player does not notice? ..anyway, that player has done it on many occasions
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  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Elliott Renzies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    what can DOP do if other player does not notice? ..anyway, that player has done it on many occasions
    I thought that the DOP could interfere if he witnessed an illegal move! But maybe an illegal move is illegal only if it's claimed as such! As for the serial offender, what can I say? I would be very interested to know what he 'd vote in our poll^ though!
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  11. #11
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elliott Renzies View Post
    I thought that the DOP could interfere if he witnessed an illegal move! But maybe an illegal move is illegal only if it's claimed as such!
    This has very recently changed.

    Until the middle of 2014, in a rapid or blitz game the arbiter would only make a ruling if a player claimed an illegal move had been made, except if both kings were in check or a pawn had been pushed to the promotion rank and left there. Only in a normal-length game would the arbiter get involved without a claim.

    In the 2014 Laws it became the case that now if a player plays an illegal move the arbiter "shall" intervene provided that the opponent has not yet responded. This means that if an arbiter sees an illegal move in blitz they now have to default the player without waiting for a claim - they don't just have the power to get involved, they have to get involved!

  12. #12
    CC Grandmaster Elliott Renzies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    This has very recently changed.

    Until the middle of 2014, in a rapid or blitz game the arbiter would only make a ruling if a player claimed an illegal move had been made, except if both kings were in check or a pawn had been pushed to the promotion rank and left there. Only in a normal-length game would the arbiter get involved without a claim.

    In the 2014 Laws it became the case that now if a player plays an illegal move the arbiter "shall" intervene provided that the opponent has not yet responded. This means that if an arbiter sees an illegal move in blitz they now have to default the player without waiting for a claim - they don't just have the power to get involved, they have to get involved!
    Thanks for the clarification!
    • Chess is like an underground activity back home! Ian Rogers, Australia's first home-grown Chess GM
    • I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else. - Winston Churchill
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I would never do it ..but can think of at least 2 Australian IMs who have done it before. One of them has been doing it on regular basis.
    I've seen one win a national blitz title using this strategy in a key game.

  14. #14
    CC Grandmaster Elliott Renzies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pax View Post
    I've seen one win a national blitz title using this strategy in a key game.
    if it wasn't the same case and/or the same offender as Michael's
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    I have actually seen Aus blitz championshop play-off decided this way some years ago
    or again Michael's

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron
    ..but can think of at least 2 Australian IMs who have done it before. One of them has been doing it on regular basis.
    looks like we have enough evidence for an Aussieblitzcheatinggate!
    • Chess is like an underground activity back home! Ian Rogers, Australia's first home-grown Chess GM
    • I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else. - Winston Churchill
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  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Reminds me of a game GM Daryl J . lost to a Kiwi (IIRC) when an N moved diagonally so that it could get to a square like g1 from where N-f3 -g5 meant curtains for DJ. And it wasn't blitz but a classic game.
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