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  1. #1
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

    Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

    Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

    Job 2;3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

    The main and worst time God also replies to evil with evil is when he puts most of us to death in the lake of fire.

    From what I have read in scriptures, God does not follow the advice that he gives in his WORD. The above shows him overcome by evil and replying with evil.

    Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

    If we are to emulate God as scriptures say we should, should we too ignore his WORD the way he does?

    At the end of days and in many biblical stories of the past, God is overcome by evil and responds with evil while telling us we should respond with good.

    Which example should we follow; what God says or what God does?

    I think that if God is saying, --- do as I say and not as I do, ---- that that is an immoral example that only a satanic demiurge would say. Yet it appears that that is what God is saying.

    Should we follow God, --- or his advice and WORD?

    They are not the same. One is good the other evil.

    Regards
    DL

  2. #2
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    Speaking of God, and with Easter coming up, I think it's time for God to front up for his annual performance review.
    I'm hoping that you guys can help me with this.

    How does one evaluate a diety? Some possible criteria:
    1.Number of followers.
    2.Consistency of his message.
    3.Ability to get his message across.
    4.Adherence to his commandments.
    5.Does he look after his "chosen people"?
    6.Does he answer our prayers?

    So how do you think Yahweh rates as a God?

    You would have thought that by now he would have all people on earth worshiping him (instead of those other false gods) but clearly he falls well short on that criterion.

    Consistency of message? There are so many different churches and sects around that it has become totally confusing. Which one is the correct religion? If only Yahweh would give us some guidance here it would be so much simpler.

    Ability to get his message across? Instead of just writing out his thoughts in the bible at one point in time Yahweh has had many different scribes do it in different time periods then assembled a committee to decide what is in and what is out. That's not good communication skills.

    Adherence to his commandments? Well I think he is making some progress here as the number of donkeys being coveted is on the decline but in the areas of murder, theft, adultery and swearing the trend seems to be in the opposite direction. Needs a lot more work here.

    Looking after his chosen people, the Jews? Well there is some scope for optimism as they haven't been in a war for a while, but if you look back over the last 100 years you would probably say that the Jews have had a pretty raw deal God's chosen people? I think most people given the choice would prefer not to be chosen by God if this is how he treats them.

    Is Yahweh good at answering prayers? Some people think that he does but are unable to produce any evidence. I know if I was choosing a God I'd want one who answered my prayers all the time. What's the point in having a God if he doesn't do anything for you?

    So how do we end up evaluating him? We must bear in mind that Yahweh is already on his second warning. The first time he stuffed it up and had to use the great flood to start again. Has he done any better the second time around .... and it's not as if he hasn't had enough time to fix things.

    Interested to hear your views....
    Still searching for Bobby Fischer....
    and fighting against those humourless bureaucrats who are forever lost in the minutiae.

  3. #3
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Hi jammo

    As a Gnostic Christian, I consider Yahweh to be an evil demiurge so you will not hear me praise his works.

    I will praise the God we call Good though. He is as mythical as Yahweh but ends up doing good work. We created our myths for the same forgotten reason that all myths are created. To be internalized to activate our pineal glands and give us access to our higher minds, or third eye to the Eastern religions. I will not bother going into too much detail as you do not sound like you are seeking God but if you are, let me know. I will give you a bit of history and some of the methodology of seeking God though. What is found through apotheosis is not a miracle working creator God. As you rightly have done, that one would get a fail. Thae God I found does not but then, he is not a miracle worker. He is quite natural and is in your own head.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02...list=PLCBF574D

    The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRN...layer_embedded

    This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

    When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

    Regards
    DL

  4. #4
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    I get the impression GB is actually an atheist.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I get the impression GB is actually an atheist.
    I hope not. What he says does not make any sense. I think he wants me "to become a God."
    Reminds me of the Yes Minister episode where the Minister says "Bernard! Sir Humphrey is not God". To which Bernard replies "Will you tell him or will I!"
    Still searching for Bobby Fischer....
    and fighting against those humourless bureaucrats who are forever lost in the minutiae.

  6. #6
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I get the impression GB is actually an atheist.
    No.

    A Gnostic Christian who just sees a different and better God than what the mainstream have to offer.

    Your mainstream Gods just want slaves and followers while the God I know to be real wants free men and leaders.

    Here is some history and me showing our methodology for apotheosis. See if it fit's into what you believe.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02...list=PLCBF574D

    The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRN...layer_embedded

    This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

    When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.

    Regards
    DL

  7. #7
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post
    I hope not. What he says does not make any sense. I think he wants me "to become a God."
    Reminds me of the Yes Minister episode where the Minister says "Bernard! Sir Humphrey is not God". To which Bernard replies "Will you tell him or will I!"
    I only follow what Jesus taught. Please see the links above.

    As to me calling myself God, I have an Apology for that that is quite biblical as well.

    Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

    When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

    What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

    What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

    Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

    Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

    John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

    Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

    Regards
    DL

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gnostic Bishop View Post
    No.

    A Gnostic Christian who just sees a different and better God than what the mainstream have to offer.
    But which is not actually a God in any meaningful sense of the word. You say "the good you find within yourself" is "the only God you can ever know". At another point you equate God with self-mastery.

    This is taking the word God, that is usually supposed to denote an extremely powerful deity (whether it once didn't do so is beside the point), and using it to refer to human characteristics and states of mind. I don't think you really believe that a human who acquires the best human characteristics develops powers similar to those spuriously attributed to the imaginary literalist God. I watched the first video you linked to there and there was actually nothing in it that was clearly inconsistent with atheism and only about 20 seconds of spiritualist waffle that sounded inconsistent but might not have been.

    You can use "God" as a metaphor for something but that's not the same as belief in God in the religious sense.

    Frankly if I thought I'd done a particularly fantastic job of self-mastery or whatever I'd hardly go and blot my copybook by saying I'd found God in the process. I'd be looking for a rather less tarnished descriptor than that.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 22-03-2015 at 12:44 AM.
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  9. #9
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    If GB truly is a gnostic then he may believe in a god which trascends the creator god of the bible. The creator god might be an aspect or derive from the true god but that is consistent with following a different, better god. This god is thought to be remote and therefore self mastery might be one way to discover some aspect of the true god.

    I think one could believe what GB has stated and still consistently believe in a supernatural domain with supernatural entities like this true god as well as lesser spirits like the god of the bible. And anyone with those beliefs would not be atheist in my view.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    My question (and I'd rather not be referred to a video) is what does this "god" actually do? What powers does it have? It all sounds very waffly and I wondered if the whole thing was just some way of coming across like a superior form of "Christian" without really believing anything all that outlandish, the main advantage being that this is more annoying to Christians and difficult for them to handle.

    I also sometimes encounter "deists" who appear to be actually atheists. (By no means all "deists" are such, but some believe in a First Cause that might as well be some random subatomic particle.)
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 22-03-2015 at 01:34 AM.
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  11. #11
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    But which is not actually a God in any meaningful sense of the word. You say "the good you find within yourself" is "the only God you can ever know". At another point you equate God with self-mastery.

    This is taking the word God, that is usually supposed to denote an extremely powerful deity (whether it once didn't do so is beside the point), and using it to refer to human characteristics and states of mind. I don't think you really believe that a human who acquires the best human characteristics develops powers similar to those spuriously attributed to the imaginary literalist God. I watched the first video you linked to there and there was actually nothing in it that was clearly inconsistent with atheism and only about 20 seconds of spiritualist waffle that sounded inconsistent but might not have been.

    You can use "God" as a metaphor for something but that's not the same as belief in God in the religious sense.

    Frankly if I thought I'd done a particularly fantastic job of self-mastery or whatever I'd hardly go and blot my copybook by saying I'd found God in the process. I'd be looking for a rather less tarnished descriptor than that.
    Sure but then I could not put my ideal against the ideal of others who do use the word God incorrectly yet as a name for their ideal.

    Further, as an offshoot to the Jewish religion who did see God as a human, I am using their traditional use of it. The creator God was always to remain a myth and unknowable and was until foolish people began idol worshiping their mythical and man made Gods.

    The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man or woman can express the will of God?

    There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God’s real will.

    Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually even after finding a bit of him or her within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves and our God.

    Regards
    DL

  12. #12
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    If GB truly is a gnostic then he may believe in a god which trascends the creator god of the bible. The creator god might be an aspect or derive from the true god but that is consistent with following a different, better god. This god is thought to be remote and therefore self mastery might be one way to discover some aspect of the true god.

    I think one could believe what GB has stated and still consistently believe in a supernatural domain with supernatural entities like this true god as well as lesser spirits like the god of the bible. And anyone with those beliefs would not be atheist in my view.
    Well put.

    Some Jews and others probably did believe in the supernatural but if like Socrates they used the term as above so below, then a Divine Council below would have matched the Divine Council above. The Jews had many Gods and Goddess' before deciding on a monotheistic God. Something had to be done with them so they put them all in the heavenly Divine Council.

    Regards
    DL

  13. #13
    CC Candidate Master Gnostic Bishop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    My question (and I'd rather not be referred to a video) is what does this "god" actually do?
    Whoever, I mean whatever he can.

    The Divine Council is a Jewish invention and must be seen from their POV.

    The lesser Gods of the Divine council would elect a leader and his word would be law and in fact, the Jewish tradition says that Rabbis could overrule whatever God was saying via his written word if the Rabbis did not agree. As it should be if one is to follow a living God.

    What powers does it have?
    To his elect, all power up to the power of life or death. I am not sure if their king could overrule the Divine council or not. He had the army so I suspect he could but would have to be careful in what he did against the Council.

    It all sounds very waffly and I wondered if the whole thing was just some way of coming across like a superior form of "Christian" without really believing anything all that outlandish, the main advantage being that this is more annoying to Christians and difficult for them to handle.
    In moral and in free thinking terms, Gnostic Christianity has always been superior to the Christianity that the West knows. They are homophobic and misogynous and we are not, just to name two of the main reasons.

    Constantine chose his version so that he would have a bunch of silent and non-thinking sheep. He did not want goats. We are harder to get unjust legislation past and we demand that leadership answer to the people and we reject tyranny. Man was born to be free and not the slaves that Christians have become.

    I also sometimes encounter "deists" who appear to be actually atheists. (By no means all "deists" are such, but some believe in a First Cause that might as well be some random subatomic particle.)
    The beginning is an intellectual distraction and a waste of time to religion which is supposed to be a moral system and not a scientific one.

    We let the dead work on that dead and likely unfathomable issue. Our focus is the living.

    Regards
    DL
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 22-03-2015 at 10:17 AM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes

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