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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Seems like a touch of "annotation by result". Yes, Schmidt's counter-attack was ingenious, but for much of the game, Browne had an extra P and good position besides, so one would normally expect a GM to win from such a position.
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  2. #62
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    Thanks Jammo for finding this game. I hadn't seen it for 40 years!

  3. #63
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    Shortly after the Browne-Schimdt game was played I played Lothar in a simul at McEwens and won.

    Both these guys played a simul at the Gen Waverley shoppong centre to raise money for the new Waverley chess club. Jammo beat schimdt with Q+B+3 pawns v 2 Qs. Browne won against me after taking 15 minutes for 1 move in a tricky ending. Hartung used an MCO while playing Browne (who followed MCO for many moves), but lost despite cheating.
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  4. #64
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    Please note: The spelling is confusing. The thread refers to Lothar Schmid, a GM and the chief arbiter of the 1972 and 1978 world championship matches. He played a match against Wade of NZ in 1950, 5 wins each and no draws.
    Paul Schmidt was an Estonian IM.

  5. #65
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    Some points in regards to the original discussion topics of this thread.
    • I've just finished GM Walter Browne's biographical text of his "The Stress of Chess - and its Infinite Finess".
    • I also went through a few games - When I find the time I will study more.
    • On p. 53 we find his 'I decided to give up my Australian citizenship and play for the US in December 1972...' statement.
    • On p. 229 we see just about the only reference to an Australian player in 'I busted Ian Rogers' Benoni'
    • There are some interesting recollections of his time in Australia.
    • There also references in regards to his representing the country in two Olympiads (Siegen - 1970 and Skopje - 1972)
    • In his 101 game collection there aren't any encounters versus Australian players.
    • The collection doesn't include any games he played while representing Australia.
    Last edited by ER; 26-03-2015 at 02:28 PM.
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  6. #66
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    In 'The Stress of Chess', far too many things that Browne says on topics that I know about are either untrue or designed to mislead.
    Some examples:

    (i) Browne explains (in detail) how he won silver (and just missed gold) in the 1970 and 1972 Olympiads. In fact he won bronze in 1972 and got no medal in 1970.

    (ii) He relates a story about an Australian town called Boolabong - a place that does not exist. He says Walla Walla is way out in the outback - it is near Albury (which is on the main road from Melbourne to Sydney). He says the Gold Coast is north of Brisbane.

    (iii) One small paragraph on page 229 has three simple errors. Browne says Miles won the 1983 tv tournament Mastergame in Bath by beating Karpov with 1...a6. The 1...a6 game was played three years earlier in Skara - Miles won in Bath with a Caro-Kann. In the same tournament he says he beat me in a Benoni - he had en edge at one point but ultimately struggled to draw that game. He also says the tournament moved to Bristol to do the voice recording of Master Game - simply not true.

    (iv) Browne says he won the Australian Championship in 1969 with 13.5/15, it was 13/15.

    (v) Covering many events he played in 1991, Browne writes about blitz and weekend events yet omits to mention a major GM tournament in San Francisco in which he competed, Tal's last big event. (Browne finished last.)

    Robert Jamieson knows much more about Browne's Australian years and could probably find many more errors.

    In passing, it is hard to hold New in Chess too responsible for many of these errors - they were entitled to rely on Browne's account, especially about his Australian experiences, though I doubt that they will do so in future.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post
    Just read the February issue and am a bit disappointed by the inaccuracy of some of the content.

    In Max Illingworth's interview the editor starts a question with the comment "You are only the 5th Australian to have ever gained the title ...." Why does everyone forget Walter Browne?
    This objection against those who are perennially forgetful made me pause for reflection ("unaccustomed as I am...").

    I think we can get some insight about what it means to say someone is Australian, by looking at how we talk about other masters who have physically crossed national boundaries (as Browne did - there would be no problem if he hadn't). For better or worse, we now live in a mobile world.

    Wesley So: Born Phillipines 1993, began to study full-time in St Louis August 2014, transferred from the Philippines Chess Federation (with some acrimony) to the US Chess Federation November 2014, awarded the Sanford Fellowship (worth US$42000) whose stated goal is "identify and assist the best young American chessmasters" March 2016, described by the working man's Bible Wikipedia as "a Filipino chess grandmaster representing the US". Would he be described as an American master rather than a Filipino master, or half-half, twenty years from now?

    Caruana:Born 1992 in Miami, relocated 2004 to Spain to pursue a chess career playing for Italy for ten years, then returned to the banner of the USCF, described by the aforesaid Bible as an "Italian-American grandmaster"

    Karjakin:Born 1990 in Ukraine (in Crimea), took Russian citizenship in 2009,saying in March 2016 "I always considered myself Russian. I speak Russian, think in Russian, so I am entirely a Russian person and entirely support Russia as a state". And Karjakin makes it plain that for him, even as he has played in three Olympiads for Ukraine and three for Russia, that emotional attachment is the test of statehood, given the complex politics involved particularly following Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014.

    Murtas Kazhgaleyev: He was a member of the Kazakhstani national team during six World Chess Olympiads, but lives in Uzbekistan because he likes the city Tashkent. In an interview with Chessdom 16 April “I have had times when I used to live in France, for example, Cannes or Paris. Probably I will move to another country and another city in the future. I am just curious and interested in discovering some new things". Interviewer: "How do you manage to keep patriotic motivation when playing for the team of your country living in a different place?" Murtas: "I am a player from Kazakhstan. I am also a coach of players from my country. For twenty years I play or coach chess only under the flag of my country”. So he is referred to as a Kazakhstani GM no matter where he resides (not so uncommon in this peripatetic age).

    In my view, whether Browne is an Australian GM is not a question about facts such that one proposition is right and another is false. Rather it depends on how language is used in common parlance, and in what context and where. And it can change with the passage of time. This is an example of the pseudo problem that a linguistic philosopher seeks to explain away, rather than to mistakenly answer a non-question.

    It is perhaps more unobjectionable to say WSB was an Australian born American GM. And to call him an American GM without any qualification would not be challenged by anyone in America or even the world, except (perhaps) in Australia.

    It's funny how whenever anyone talks about GMs in Australia, they would name the big five, and then (far from forgetting) apologetically add a caveat about the Australian born WSB. Rogers in an ABC interview with Margaret Throsby in 2014, was described as Australia's first GM, but he was constrained to explain how Browne was born in Australia, but came back for a short period to escape the draft (he said), implying a lack of commitment (another determinant of being Australian?).

    I believe Koshnitsky had a lot to do with WSB playing first board for Australia (after he left Australia) in the Olympiads 1970 and 1972, offering some money. As a good politician, he believed it would lift standards in Australia to have such a talent playing under our flag. However, it became obvious that we would not hold him for long (and fair enough for a professional chess player, comparing the difference in opportunities).

    But there was no denying the exciting phenomenon he then was for a short time, the likes of which had not been seen in Australia to then. His GM title came after he left Australia for good (although he may still be registered to the ACF for a short period) so Australia cannot really claim to have nurtured him (apart from Kosh's short lived efforts).

    It all boils down to what we mean by the word Australian. Merely being born here doesn't quite cut the mustard if other criteria come into play.

    An analogous problem is what is meant by the term World Champion. Was Staunton the first World Champion? We could argue till the cows come home on this one too.

    PS An earlier discussion is at http://www.chesschat.org/showthread....ghlight=browne
    Last edited by Frank; 05-05-2016 at 07:42 PM.

  8. #68
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    [QUOTE=Frank;410145]

    What a piece of garbage! Everyone knows Browne was an Australian Grandmaster.
    Last edited by Frank; 05-05-2016 at 08:00 PM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post

    What a piece of garbage! Everyone knows Browne was an Australian Grandmaster.
    Totally agree. The statement "His GM title came after he left Australia for good" is untrue also as GM Browne played in the 1971 Karlis Lidums Aust Open in Adelaide.

    How anyone can argue that a player who was the Australian Champion and played on board 1 for Australia in two olympiads was not an Australian is beyond me.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 06-05-2016 at 08:13 PM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post

    Totally agree. The statement "His GM title came after he left Australia for good" is untrue also as GM Browne played in the 1971 Karlis Lidums Aust Open in Adelaide.

    How anyone can argue that a player who was the Australian Champion and played on board 1 for Australia in two olympiads was not an Australian is beyond me.
    Playing in the 1971 Lidums does not show he had not left for good, just as playing in the 1971 US Junior Championships does not show he went back to the USA. To be clear, I don't know precisely when he left Australia for good (a mental component in those words), but from memory I think before his two Olympiads representing Australia in 1970 and 1972.

    Being Australian Champion in 1969 may well have meant that Australian administrators were eager to claim his as one of their own, but Browne had his own ideas as to where his true destiny lay, winning numerous US national titles.

    He qualified for the GM title at the San Juan Invitational Tournament that finished 8 October 1969 and the title was ratified at [Bill Gletsos] the Siegen Olympiad September 1970.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 06-05-2016 at 08:13 PM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplecheck View Post
    He is a great chess player and will be the first to admit it and could easily become challenger for the World title next time around, in 1975.
    ---
    You must be kidding - He was never even in the top 5 in the world - probably hardly in top 10. The Russians were always way stronger than him and so were the likes of Portish
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post

    Playing in the 1971 Lidums does not show he had not left for good ...
    Correct. Nor did I say it had. You don't seem to have grasped the point that I am correcting errors of fact. You seem to be arguing perceptions.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 06-05-2016 at 08:14 PM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post

    You don't seem to have grasped the point that I am correcting errors of fact. You seem to be arguing perceptions.
    That I'm arguing perceptions? You may well be right. Seems like you and I are not in the same universe of discourse.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 06-05-2016 at 08:14 PM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post

    That I'm arguing perceptions? You may well be right. Seems like you and I are not in the same universe of discourse.
    Perhaps it's a question of tense. I note that you say "In my view, whether Browne IS an Australian GM is not a question about facts such that one proposition is right and another is false."

    I'm not arguing that Browne IS an Australian GM, I'm just stating the fact that he WAS an Australian GM (our first). The fact that he subsequently switched allegiances and became an American GM is fine with me. To everyone and to history he is regarded as an American GM .... but that does not erase his past when he WAS an Australian GM.

    In passing I'm quite happy if you hold a different view on this matter to me, but if you support this view by stating incorrect or incomplete facts then I will correct them, as I have done in our posts above.

    Like you, I remember when Browne was playing for Australia and I believe that he played an important role in our development as a chess nation which should not be diminished or written out of our history.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 06-05-2016 at 08:14 PM. Reason: repair quote tags only, no changes
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo View Post
    Perhaps it's a question of tense. I note that you say "In my view, whether Browne IS an Australian GM is not a question about facts such that one proposition is right and another is false."

    I'm not arguing that Browne IS an Australian GM, I'm just stating the fact that he WAS an Australian GM (our first). The fact that he subsequently switched allegiances and became an American GM is fine with me. To everyone and to history he is regarded as an American GM .... but that does not erase his past when he WAS an Australian GM.

    In passing I'm quite happy if you hold a different view on this matter to me, but if you support this view by stating incorrect or incomplete facts then I will correct them, as I have done in our posts above.

    Like you, I remember when Browne was playing for Australia and I believe that he played an important role in our development as a chess nation which should not be diminished or written out of our history.
    It's fit and proper that we should remember and honour Browne, as a fiery comet who briefly blazed under southern stars, as I think we all do and have never forgotten. It would be sad indeed to have a perception that those who debate terms and meanings only mean to debase that memory or to write him out of history.

    Indeed, you will never have a useful debate about the meaning of anything unless the terms of what you are talking about are clear. You are entitled to the view that you speak factually only, and are zealous to squash falsehoods only.

    But when all is said and done, I wish the day is not far off when Australia can claim its own undisputed GM who was anywhere half as brilliant as Browne was and from as young as he was. That day alas has not yet come.

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