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  1. #1
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Retaining juniors when they enter adult chess

    Thought I would create a new thread on the title. It comes from Smerdon at the World Juniors thread in tournament news.

    I will be making a lengthy post in a couple of hours as I have things to do at the moment
    Last edited by Garvinator; 19-11-2004 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #2
    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    Thought I would create a new thread on the title. It comes from Smerdon at the World Juniors thread in tournament news.

    I will be making a lengthy post in a couple of hours as I have things to do at the moment
    It also is mentioned in posts #35 and 36 on the Olympiad team in 2010 thread.

    Denis Jessop

  3. #3
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    It also is mentioned in posts #35 and 36 on the Olympiad team in 2010 thread.

    Denis Jessop
    well now there is a thread all on its own for this topic

  4. #4
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    Just a data point. No conclusion offered.

    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    well now there is a thread all on its own for this topic
    While we are on the topic of metrics...
    BHCC lost around 60 members in 2003 (I.e did not renew their subs) and it looks likely to loose around 47 different individuals in 2004. Total is 100+.

    This loss occurred when our membership is at an all-time high and is a monotonically increasing sequence. (The membership that is, not the loss-rate).

    (Probably similar loss-rate figures for WHJ, but scaling is 50% of BHCC).


    starter

  5. #5
    CC Candidate Master The_Wise_Man's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Promotion of Chess 18-30yo

    I believe the best way to promote chess to 18-30 year olds (both former juniors and new players) is to emphasize the "Balanced Lifestyle".

    There will always be the core group of players in this age group that will want to play as much as possible but most players will have other interests.

    Weekenders may not be solution to this group. This group may not have the time to dedicate 2 to 3 whole days to playing chess or may wish not to dedicate 2 to 3 days to playing chess.

    A vast majority of junior players play only 1 competitive game a week (school's chess) and maybe a tournament or two in the school holidays.
    Maybe we should be guiding this group to the various chess clubs where they can allocate their 3-4 hours a week and play their 1 competitive game per week. Let them know that they are still part of the chess community and understand that chess is probably further down on their list of priorities (to education, a career, partying, starting a family etc).

    If we can get this group playing one game a week, then it will be better than losing them altogether... Should we be identifying the playing habits of our juniors and specifically targeting "Balanced Lifestyle/Social Aspect" of chess.

    Its a thought! From personal experience I left the scene for close to 10 years and have only been playing again for 2 years. In the first year I said that I wanted to devote 1 night a week to chess and only 1 night, no weekenders, no State Championships etc.... In my second year I have continued to play my 1 night a week in addition to Doeberl Cup and NSW Open. I am happy to play again in these tournaments and continue to play once a week at my club. Thats my commitment.... and its all part of a Balanced Lifestyle...

    What have we got to lose!

    Wise

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ggrayggray
    I will be making a lengthy post in a couple of hours as I have things to do at the moment
    What ever happened to the lengthy post?
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  7. #7
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Wise_Man
    I believe the best way to promote chess to 18-30 year olds (both former juniors and new players) is to emphasize the "Balanced Lifestyle".

    There will always be the core group of players in this age group that will want to play as much as possible but most players will have other interests.

    Weekenders may not be solution to this group. This group may not have the time to dedicate 2 to 3 whole days to playing chess or may wish not to dedicate 2 to 3 days to playing chess.

    A vast majority of junior players play only 1 competitive game a week (school's chess) and maybe a tournament or two in the school holidays.
    Maybe we should be guiding this group to the various chess clubs where they can allocate their 3-4 hours a week and play their 1 competitive game per week. Let them know that they are still part of the chess community and understand that chess is probably further down on their list of priorities (to education, a career, partying, starting a family etc).

    If we can get this group playing one game a week, then it will be better than losing them altogether... Should we be identifying the playing habits of our juniors and specifically targeting "Balanced Lifestyle/Social Aspect" of chess.

    Its a thought! From personal experience I left the scene for close to 10 years and have only been playing again for 2 years. In the first year I said that I wanted to devote 1 night a week to chess and only 1 night, no weekenders, no State Championships etc.... In my second year I have continued to play my 1 night a week in addition to Doeberl Cup and NSW Open. I am happy to play again in these tournaments and continue to play once a week at my club. Thats my commitment.... and its all part of a Balanced Lifestyle...

    What have we got to lose!

    Wise
    The funny thing with chess is that for some people it can become an obsession, hence it is a good idea to encourage a balance. Not only this but make something more out of events.. as I've alluded to once before, it's a reason I think the Adelaide Uni Open is such a successful event because of the social atmosphere, transfer tournament, videos upstairs, table tennis and free dinner! The more activities available at events, the better I believe the interest would be for young people to attend.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  8. #8
    Account Permanently Banned PHAT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Wise_Man
    I believe the best way to promote chess to 18-30 year olds (both former juniors and new players) is to emphasize the "Balanced Lifestyle"...

    What have we got to lose!

    Wise
    Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    I suggested to the NSWCA council that we offer the players who are starting to leave the junior ranks, free antry into some number of our NSWCA open tournaments

    I was given the big raz because "everyone must pay!"

    No promotion
    No reaping the fruits of the JCL efforts.
    No phkn future.

    I also suggested "Bring a friend and you both enter half price" - to bring back former players.

    This got the big raz too. "Everyone must pay. We are not a charity. The sky will fall."

    This current NSWCA mob are good at assembly-line work, but don't expect to see them a the design office.

  9. #9
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

    I suggested to the NSWCA council that we offer the players who are starting to leave the junior ranks, free antry into some number of our NSWCA open tournaments

    I was given the big raz because "everyone must pay!"

    No promotion
    No reaping the fruits of the JCL efforts.
    No phkn future.
    The juniors pay to compete in junior events why should they get free entry into adult events. Even the junior league rep wasnt in favour of your proposal and his experience with juniors far exceeds yours any day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    I also suggested "Bring a friend and you both enter half price" - to bring back former players.

    This got the big raz too. "Everyone must pay. We are not a charity. The sky will fall."
    It was the council's opinion that entry fees were not a factor in stopping people returning to chess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew Sweeney
    This current NSWCA mob are good at assembly-line work, but don't expect to see them a the design office.
    You as usual wouldnt have a clue.

  10. #10
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    The juniors pay to compete in junior events why should they get free entry into adult events. Even the junior league rep wasnt in favour of your proposal and his experience with juniors far exceeds yours any day.
    They're free here.

    It was the council's opinion that entry fees were not a factor in stopping people returning to chess.
    Funny that, since a number of people I speak to often quote high entry fees as a factor in their non-attendance. And as usual, the Council aka 'dinosaurs' aren't exactly in the age demographic to make any such assumptions.

    You as usual wouldnt have a clue.
    Contrariwise, I think Matt's idea is quite novel.
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Wise_Man


    A vast majority of junior players play only 1 competitive game a week (school's chess) and maybe a tournament or two in the school holidays.
    Maybe we should be guiding this group to the various chess clubs where they can allocate their 3-4 hours a week and play their 1 competitive game per week. Let them know that they are still part of the chess community and understand that chess is probably further down on their list of priorities (to education, a career, partying, starting a family etc).

    Wise
    This is a good thread with lots of thought-provoking ideas. I don't think Victoria has found a solution to the loss of young players as other interests compete for their attention.
    Where we do seem to differ a bit is that we don't really have a transition from junior tournaments to senior. It is hard for me to be introspective and see this clearly. What is clear is that we have very few junior tournaments. Thus, keen juniors (from U8 to U14) very quickly seek out the combined adult-junior events and enter into these.
    Juniors (U10) who are able to play without be disruptive, who can keep score, and who are willing to join a coaching group, are welcomed into Club events like the Box Hill OPEN assured of competitve games and prize-money all the way down the divisions.
    Juniors are able to play Friday, and/or Tuesday, and/or Sunday and there is graduated challenge without the need to undergo the transition into a new environment. U10's, in their first game of tournament chess, could find themselves playing a patzer 80 year-old. There is no feeling of......I have played juniors for 3 years, now I have to step up to seniors.

    Just some isolated thoughts.


    starter

    ps......and because there is no transition, there is no need to for the concessional entry debate that was raised by Matt. Juniors (U10) start paying their way in their very first senior event, and can expect to win most of the rating prizes as they are under-rated (oops, sorry Bill...I meant to say...improving rapidly). Who needs discounted entry when juicy prizes are there to be won?
    Last edited by ursogr8; 27-11-2004 at 08:16 PM.

  12. #12
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    They're free here.
    Where is here.
    And what events are free.
    As far as I was aware most junior events in QLD had entry fees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Funny that, since a number of people I speak to often quote high entry fees as a factor in their non-attendance. And as usual, the Council aka 'dinosaurs' aren't exactly in the age demographic to make any such assumptions.
    You are not a NSW player so what would you know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Contrariwise, I think Matt's idea is quite novel.
    Novel but not worthwhile

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster Alan Shore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos
    Where is here.
    And what events are free.
    As far as I was aware most junior events in QLD had entry fees.
    Four times a year, there are GC shopping centre events for juniors with free entry. These have generated up to around 200 entrants. Junior tournaments with entry fees have yielded significantly lower numbers (less than half). The Brisbane events were popular too until we ran out of organisers.

    You are not a NSW player so what would you know.
    You are not a recent junior, so what would you know!

    Novel but not worthwhile
    What's that quote advertising the Northern Territory a few years back..

    'You'll never never know if you never never go!'
    "I can't go back to yesterday because I was a different person then."
    - White Queen, Alice through the Looking-Glass

  14. #14
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    Four times a year, there are GC shopping centre events for juniors with free entry. These have generated up to around 200 entrants. Junior tournaments with entry fees have yielded significantly lower numbers (less than half). The Brisbane events were popular too until we ran out of organisers.
    The real test of course would be how many of those that only played in the free entry events continued playing in events where there was an entry fee.
    If they all drop out after a few years its of no ongoing benefit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    You are not a recent junior, so what would you know!
    When its comes to NSW significantly more than you and our Junior League people would know more about juniors than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    What's that quote advertising the Northern Territory a few years back..

    'You'll never never know if you never never go!'
    You dont have to try to walk on water to know that you will fail.
    Therefore you dont have to try Matt's ideas for the same reason.
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 27-11-2004 at 10:23 PM.

  15. #15
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Dickinson
    What ever happened to the lengthy post?
    the lengthy post went out the window and will probably stay there.

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