Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 44 of 44

Thread: Half-point Byes

  1. #31
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Half-point byes are mentioned in the General Regulations for Competitions, but not in the pairing rules:
    (4) In an L2 or L3 tournament the rules may permit a player to take a half point bye in a given round. It is only allowed once during the tournament, if adequate notice has been given and is agreed to by the arbiter. Such permission might not be granted to a player who receives conditions, or who has been given a free entry to the tournament.
    So only one half-point bye is allowed in any FIDE-rated event?

  2. #32
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    41,131
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So only one half-point bye is allowed in any FIDE-rated event?
    As usual there is a fudge: "These Rules shall also be applied to all FIDE-rated competitions, amended where appropriate." There is also the usual turf war that the QC doesn't like other parts of FIDE telling it what it can or cannot rate.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  3. #33
    CC Grandmaster Garvinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    13,436
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    As usual there is a fudge: "These Rules shall also be applied to all FIDE-rated competitions, amended where appropriate." There is also the usual turf war that the QC doesn't like other parts of FIDE telling it what it can or cannot rate.
    When discussing this topic, I always find it rather disappointing that Fide can not even give a clear answer as to how many half point byes are allowed in what type of Fide rated events.

  4. #34
    CC FIDE Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    627
    You can have as many half-point byes as you want on whatever rounds you want as long as you publish it as part of the rules of the competition which would usually be on the entry form or tournament website. This is obviously not an invitation to offer 6 byes in 6 rounds, so organisers should be sensible about it.

    To quote from the General Regulations for Competitions (bolding mine to point out the main reason I say that):

    Unless the rules of a competition specify otherwise:

    (3)... (snip as not relevant to this discussion)
    (4) In an L2 or L3 tournament the rules may permit a player to take a half point bye in a
    given round. It is only allowed once during the tournament, if adequate notice has
    been given and is agreed to by the arbiter. Such permission might not be granted to a
    player who receives conditions, or who has been given a free entry to the tournament.
    Another salient quote:
    (1)Scope
    1.1 Where an event has a situation not covered by internal rules, these Rules shall be considered to be definitive.
    IA Craig Hall

    www.chess.org.nz - Canterbury Chess Club
    http://respectrum.nz - Major sponsor

  5. #35
    CC FIDE Master
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    So only one half-point bye is allowed in any FIDE-rated event?
    The General Regulations for Competitions allow organisers of L2 and L3 events to regulate that players may take up to one half-point bye: organisers of L1 tournaments are free to introduce their own tournament rule allowing for a larger number.
    FA Andrew Hardegen
    Southern Suburbs Chess Club (Perth) -- www.southernsuburbschessclub.org.au
    Senior Vice-President, CAWA -- www.cawa.org.au

    Chief Organiser, 2023 Australian Open (2nd-10th January) -- https://sites.google.com/view/2023ausopen/home

  6. #36
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    41,131
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    The General Regulations for Competitions allow organisers of L2 and L3 events to regulate that players may take up to one half-point bye: organisers of L1 tournaments are free to introduce their own tournament rule allowing for a larger number.
    I understand the intent to be to ban half-point byes for L1 tournaments because they are FIDE championship events and to allow organisers to offer one (but discourage more) in L2 and L3, but the "Where an event has a situation not covered by internal rules, these Rules shall be considered to be definitive." seems to allow organisers on any level to set up any half-point bye rule that they like.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  7. #37
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    17,305
    Interestingly neither the FIDE Rating Regulations or the Title Regulations make any mention of the General Regulations for Competitions.
    The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded.
    Mos Eisley spaceport The toolbox. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

  8. #38
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    I understand the intent to be to ban half-point byes for L1 tournaments because they are FIDE championship events and to allow organisers to offer one (but discourage more) in L2 and L3, but the "Where an event has a situation not covered by internal rules, these Rules shall be considered to be definitive." seems to allow organisers on any level to set up any half-point bye rule that they like.
    I wonder if this is to allow some USCF events to be FIDE-rated. Their FIDE-rated events are more generous in allowing byes than any Australian event I'm aware of, even allowing half-point byes in the final round, as in this five round FIDE-rated event!
    3. Byes
    • Byes are available for players in any round in case they can't participate but would like to stay in the tournament.
    • A maximum of 2 half-point byes can be requested in this tournament.
    • Round 1-3 byes must be requested 15 minutes prior to the round start time.
    • Round 4-5 byes must be requested before the start of Round 1. Round 5 bye is irrevocable to prevent prize-fund manipulations.
    • Late registrations will receive a half-point bye for any missed round, up to a total of 2 rounds.

  9. #39
    CC Candidate Master slyall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    81
    A datapoint from the Auckland Chess Centre (for a few years ago).

    Traditionally at the Auckland Chess Centre if players did not turn up on Club night we paired unpaired players with each other. This worked well enough for non-rated and NZCF rated tournaments but when we started making more club night events FIDE-rated this could not be done anymore.

    So we changed the policy to allowing half point byes in any round of Swiss tournaments provided it was notified beforehand (with a cutoff about 15 minutes before the round started). No limit on byes or reason required. We recognize that players have other stuff in their lives and sometimes that takes priority.

    Sometimes this resulted in the odd player getting half point byes for the majority of rounds of the tournament.

    Players who didn't notify were given warnings (and a default on the night). I seem to remember withdrawing a couple of players or not allowing them to enter the next tournaments. But most people were very good.

  10. #40
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    41,131
    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I wonder if this is to allow some USCF events to be FIDE-rated.
    I've been at a fair few FIDE meetings where the experience of how the US does these sorts of things comes up as a reason to avoid tight limits on bye practices.
    Moderation Requests: All requests for, comments about, or questions about moderation of any kind including thread changes must be posted in the Help and Feedback section and not on the thread in question. (Or by private message for routine changes or sensitive matters.)

    ACF Newsletter Information - All Australian players and administrators should subscribe and check each issue for relevant notices

    My psephology/politics site (token chess references only) : http://kevinbonham.blogspot.com.au/ Politics twitter feed https://twitter.com/kevinbonham

  11. #41
    CC FIDE Master
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    Posts
    627
    Quote Originally Posted by slyall View Post
    A datapoint from the Auckland Chess Centre (for a few years ago).

    Traditionally at the Auckland Chess Centre if players did not turn up on Club night we paired unpaired players with each other. This worked well enough for non-rated and NZCF rated tournaments but when we started making more club night events FIDE-rated this could not be done anymore.

    So we changed the policy to allowing half point byes in any round of Swiss tournaments provided it was notified beforehand (with a cutoff about 15 minutes before the round started). No limit on byes or reason required. We recognize that players have other stuff in their lives and sometimes that takes priority.

    Sometimes this resulted in the odd player getting half point byes for the majority of rounds of the tournament.

    Players who didn't notify were given warnings (and a default on the night). I seem to remember withdrawing a couple of players or not allowing them to enter the next tournaments. But most people were very good.
    The FIDE General Regulations for Competitions allow pairing players without opponents in L2 and L3 tournaments - 6.7(3).

    That said, ACC's half-point bye system is similar to Canterbury's which works fine for club nights. Rather than notification of non-attendance though, we require notification of attendance (or turning up) at least 15 minutes before the start of the round. No notification, no pairing.
    IA Craig Hall

    www.chess.org.nz - Canterbury Chess Club
    http://respectrum.nz - Major sponsor

  12. #42
    CC Candidate Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    I think half point byes are ok but full point byes are simply unacceptable.
    I agree with Michael.
    For coaching contact Bill Jordan at swneerava@gmail.com
    My Chess ebooks and paperbacks can be found at Amazon Author Central
    and my YouTube channel is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsd...-HNla3kQdhTleQ

  13. #43
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,223
    One issue with non-pairing allocated byes - which I'll refer to as half-point byes for convenience - that hasn't been discussed here is that they count as a downfloat in the pairing rules. Pairing-allocated byes also count as a downfloat, of course, but there's only one of these per round, and they will likely be given to a player at the bottom of the field, so the effect on the pairings is very limited. On the other hand, half-point byes are ubiquitous! In the current Brisbane Club event, which has now finished its third round, almost half the players have had one in either the first or second round.

    Which means that they definitely affect the pairings. For example, our second highest score-group (on 2.5/3) has eight players. Based on current pairings, one player has to float up (there are three players on 3/3), so there will also be a player floating down. And that downfloater is likely to be the second highest ranked player in the group, even though there are two significantly lower rated players also due the same colour - because those two players have had half-point byes in the previous round!

    That doesn't seem like the 'right' outcome to me. Although it's partly just bad luck, of course. But, with half-point byes becoming more common in events at (almost) every level, maybe their treatment in the pairing rules is something FIDE should have a look at.

  14. #44
    CC Grandmaster
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    8,223
    And there seems to be a simple solution. Currently, byes are treated the same as 'normal' downfloats. And a downfloated player is not suppose to downfloat again in the next two rounds. That makes sense for a player receiving the 'benefit' of a pairing allocated bye, which is generally a full point. But a player receiving a half-point bye is not receiving the same 'benefit', so logically they should only be restricted from downfloating for a single round. And, extending the logic, a zero-point bye should result in no restrictions on future downfloats.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. half-lmove
    By TomekP in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 16-07-2013, 07:16 AM
  2. Half-Point Byes (sf NSWCA AGM)
    By Libby2 in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 17-06-2011, 03:47 PM
  3. Eliminating byes from three-team tournaments
    By Kevin Bonham in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-04-2011, 07:33 AM
  4. Half point BYE
    By forlano in forum Arbiters' Corner
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 23-12-2010, 07:19 PM
  5. It aint half hot mum
    By Davidflude in forum Non-Chess
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 02-01-2006, 10:59 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •