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Thread: Illegal Move

  1. #16
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    All three supported it, infact when a player tried to make a formal complaint, Sandler and Kenmure were apart of the commitee
    The arbiter's running the event shouldn't be part of any appeals committee.

    It's a concern that apparently an FA and a Category A IA dont know the rules.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos View Post
    The arbiter's running the event shouldn't be part of any appeals committee.

    It's a concern that apparently an FA and a Category A IA dont know the rules.
    I'm not at the venue, and wasn't today, just going off what several people that were effected by this rule have said.

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  4. #19
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    I'm not at the venue, and wasn't today, just going off what several people that were effected by this rule have said.
    There were multiple such incidents? Involving players not being allowed to move before their opponents had pressed their clocks?

  5. #20
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Who were the arbiters?
    According to the FIDE registration the arbiters were:
    Chief Arbiter : FA Leonid Sandler
    Deputy Chief Arbiters: IA Jamie Kenmure and FA Chris Zuccala
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    Want to point out that this Jack. P. using this account to write this. I just want to say that this was absolutely the worst tournament I have ever played. Many people were shocked by the announcement of this new 'rule' in the opening statements of the tournament it being said that - If your opponent does not press his clock after making a move, and you reply with your own move, then you will be forfeited - without any clarification of what constitutes a move, do you lose after you move your piece to another square? Do you lose when you take your hand of the piece? A few rounds later, with already many people loses games due to this rule, including a GM who lost in the very opening moments of the game, a friend and I asked one of the arbiters the same question as above, when does your reply count as a move that allows you to be forfeited? There still no clarification on this issue from the arbiter even after pressing for one. The very next round this exact scenario occurred in Smirnov- Morris, where Morris was forfeited seconds after the game begun because he touched a piece when Smirnov had not pressed the clock. An appeal was made by Morris which was expected to take a while, but only moments later it was ruled that Morris was to be forfeited, I have been told that the appeals committee was the arbiters that Morris was appealing against, however I'm not 100% on this. I then tried to get a clear answer on when the you can be legally forfeited, I was told, with complete certainty, that the FIDE laws state that if your opponent does not press their clock and you touch a piece which can legally move, then you can be forfeited. Each game became a matter of whether you wanted to exploit this rule to claim a dirty win, in a couple of my own games I unintentionally missed the clock when I went to press the clock and my opponent naturally went to move their own piece and therefore touched it, a situation where I could have simply claimed a win. In my final game my opponent intentionally pretended to press the clock multiple times and could have claimed a win at least 3 times. The closing ceremony concluded with the winner of the tournament making a short speech not consisting of the usual speech thank yous, but a quick word on how they were disappointed with the younger generations. Following which the presenter took the opportunity to publicly take a snipe at some of the people that challenged this 'rule'.

  7. #22
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Formatted for easier reading.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    Want to point out that this Jack. P. using this account to write this.

    I just want to say that this was absolutely the worst tournament I have ever played.

    Many people were shocked by the announcement of this new 'rule' in the opening statements of the tournament it being said that - If your opponent does not press his clock after making a move, and you reply with your own move, then you will be forfeited - without any clarification of what constitutes a move, do you lose after you move your piece to another square? Do you lose when you take your hand of the piece?

    A few rounds later, with already many people loses games due to this rule, including a GM who lost in the very opening moments of the game, a friend and I asked one of the arbiters the same question as above, when does your reply count as a move that allows you to be forfeited?

    There still no clarification on this issue from the arbiter even after pressing for one.

    The very next round this exact scenario occurred in Smirnov- Morris, where Morris was forfeited seconds after the game begun because he touched a piece when Smirnov had not pressed the clock. An appeal was made by Morris which was expected to take a while, but only moments later it was ruled that Morris was to be forfeited, I have been told that the appeals committee was the arbiters that Morris was appealing against, however I'm not 100% on this.

    I then tried to get a clear answer on when the you can be legally forfeited, I was told, with complete certainty, that the FIDE laws state that if your opponent does not press their clock and you touch a piece which can legally move, then you can be forfeited.

    Each game became a matter of whether you wanted to exploit this rule to claim a dirty win, in a couple of my own games I unintentionally missed the clock when I went to press the clock and my opponent naturally went to move their own piece and therefore touched it, a situation where I could have simply claimed a win.

    In my final game my opponent intentionally pretended to press the clock multiple times and could have claimed a win at least 3 times.

    The closing ceremony concluded with the winner of the tournament making a short speech not consisting of the usual speech thank yous, but a quick word on how they were disappointed with the younger generations. Following which the presenter took the opportunity to publicly take a snipe at some of the people that challenged this 'rule'.
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  8. #23
    The Man in the Back that Caesar guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThebeJohnston View Post
    Want to point out that this Jack. P. using this account to write this. I just want to say that this was absolutely the worst tournament I have ever played. Many people were shocked by the announcement of this new 'rule' in the opening statements of the tournament it being said that - If your opponent does not press his clock after making a move, and you reply with your own move, then you will be forfeited - without any clarification of what constitutes a move, do you lose after you move your piece to another square? Do you lose when you take your hand of the piece? A few rounds later, with already many people loses games due to this rule, including a GM who lost in the very opening moments of the game, a friend and I asked one of the arbiters the same question as above, when does your reply count as a move that allows you to be forfeited? There still no clarification on this issue from the arbiter even after pressing for one. The very next round this exact scenario occurred in Smirnov- Morris, where Morris was forfeited seconds after the game begun because he touched a piece when Smirnov had not pressed the clock. An appeal was made by Morris which was expected to take a while, but only moments later it was ruled that Morris was to be forfeited, I have been told that the appeals committee was the arbiters that Morris was appealing against, however I'm not 100% on this. I then tried to get a clear answer on when the you can be legally forfeited, I was told, with complete certainty, that the FIDE laws state that if your opponent does not press their clock and you touch a piece which can legally move, then you can be forfeited. Each game became a matter of whether you wanted to exploit this rule to claim a dirty win, in a couple of my own games I unintentionally missed the clock when I went to press the clock and my opponent naturally went to move their own piece and therefore touched it, a situation where I could have simply claimed a win. In my final game my opponent intentionally pretended to press the clock multiple times and could have claimed a win at least 3 times. The closing ceremony concluded with the winner of the tournament making a short speech not consisting of the usual speech thank yous, but a quick word on how they were disappointed with the younger generations. Following which the presenter took the opportunity to publicly take a snipe at some of the people that challenged this 'rule'.
    I can confirm that the appeals committee consisted of Sandler, Zuccala and Jamieson.

    Additionally, it was Smirnov who made the claim originally, rather than the arbiters adjudicating the game without a claim.
    'And the man in the back said "Everyone attack!", and it turned into a ballroom blitz. And the girl in the corner said "Boy I wanna warn ya, it'll turn into a ballroom blitz." Brian Connolly

  9. #24
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by that Caesar guy View Post
    I can confirm that the appeals committee consisted of Sandler, Zuccala and Jamieson.
    It is incomprehensible that arbiters of the tournament Sandler and Zuccala would be on the appeals committee.

    Quote Originally Posted by that Caesar guy View Post
    Additionally, it was Smirnov who made the claim originally, rather than the arbiters adjudicating the game without a claim.
    James, did the arbiters announce prior to the start of the tournament as reported by Jack P. that "If your opponent does not press his clock after making a move, and you reply with your own move, then you will be forfeited"?
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  10. #25
    The Man in the Back that Caesar guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Gletsos View Post
    It is incomprehensible that arbiters of the tournament Sandler and Zuccala would be on the appeals committee.

    James, did the arbiters announce prior to the start of the tournament as reported by Jack P. that "If your opponent does not press his clock after making a move, and you reply with your own move, then you will be forfeited"?
    They did announce this decision to make this a rule before the tournament, yes. Regardless of the legality of the rule they implemented (which was always extremely questionable to me from the beginning), my claim was based upon the fact that I never in fact let go of the piece I was moving, so therefore hadn't completed my move, making it impossible to be an illegal move despite Anton not having pressed the clock.

    My claim was only one of dozens of claims made throughout the tournament based upon this rule; I'm the only one who kicked up a storm about it, but every round had at least 3 instances of this rule being implemented.
    'And the man in the back said "Everyone attack!", and it turned into a ballroom blitz. And the girl in the corner said "Boy I wanna warn ya, it'll turn into a ballroom blitz." Brian Connolly

  11. #26
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    Not sure about others reading all this..but I am totally confused now what the rule is...so touching your piece while opponent still has not pressed the clock is illegal move, am I right? Because I am old and have difficult understanding long passages...could someone please answer Yes or NO to make it simple.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by that Caesar guy View Post
    I can confirm that the appeals committee consisted of Sandler, Zuccala and Jamieson.

    Additionally, it was Smirnov who made the claim originally, rather than the arbiters adjudicating the game without a claim.
    It's news to me that I was on an appeals committee! I had been having a theoretical discussion with Jamie about this rule and tried to look it up on my pad over dinner. When I went back to the venue Leonid was discussing the rule with Jamie and I showed him what it said on my iPad. I was not even aware that there had been another incident with James and Anton about this rule.
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  13. #28
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by that Caesar guy View Post
    They did announce this decision to make this a rule before the tournament, yes. Regardless of the legality of the rule they implemented (which was always extremely questionable to me from the beginning), my claim was based upon the fact that I never in fact let go of the piece I was moving, so therefore hadn't completed my move, making it impossible to be an illegal move despite Anton not having pressed the clock.

    My claim was only one of dozens of claims made throughout the tournament based upon this rule; I'm the only one who kicked up a storm about it, but every round had at least 3 instances of this rule being implemented.
    See my post in the 2016 Victorian Blitz Championship thread.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Not sure about others reading all this..but I am totally confused now what the rule is...so touching your piece while opponent still has not pressed the clock is illegal move, am I right? Because I am old and have difficult understanding long passages...could someone please answer Yes or NO to make it simple.
    NO. Player B is entitled to touch one of their pieces and move it as soon as Player A releases the piece on its intended square, provided Player A's move is legal.

    In this tournament, the arbiters have imposed their own rule forbidding this.
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  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Hardegen View Post
    NO. Player B is entitled to touch one of their pieces and move it as soon as Player A releases the piece on its intended square, provided Player A's move is legal.

    In this tournament, the arbiters have imposed their own rule forbidding this.
    Ok...so the rule is..I can complete my move before opponent presses the clock? Thx, I got it.
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