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  1. #1
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    AFLW v Australian Chess - Which is bigger and better!

    2022 - 14 Teams – 420 Players – plus 10 Reserves for each team.
    2023 – 18 Teams – 540 players – plus 10 Reserves for each team.

    Sound familiar? Not really. We administer chess, not AFLW.

    The season opener has never drawn less than 15,000 spectators. 2021 was Covid restricted.
    When was the last time a weekender drew 50 spectators? Maybe Doeberl on a very good weekend.

    At present, there are 14 clubs in the AFLW competition.
    They are:
    • New South Wales: Greater Western Sydney (GWS) Giants.
    • Queensland: Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns.
    • South Australia: Adelaide Crows.
    • Victoria/Tasmania: Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Geelong Cats, Melbourne Demons, North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos,
    St Kilda Saints, Richmond Tigers, Western Bulldogs.
    • Western Australia: Fremantle Dockers, West Coast Eagles.

    The names of the Australian Chess Teams are under a media embargo. Shhh!
    They are like nanna’s good crockery – hardly ever used.
    Friendly Matches with other countries online – Get serious! I don’t think so.

    The names of the State Chess Teams can be anything you like. Pick a name.
    The names of the State Junior Teams can be anything you like. Pick a name.

    • How long is the season?
    Season six is the longest yet at 10 regular rounds followed by three weeks of finals.
    Season length has long been a point of contention for the AFLW playing cohort, with the current Collective Bargaining Agreement* expiring at the end of this season.
    A number of players have vocalised their desire to see a full-length season in which each team plays each other once.

    *“Collective Bargaining Agreement?” What the hell is that?
    Chess players play as individuals, and will continue to do so until the last adult OTB player is left standing.
    And that is scheduled for about 2028.

    With Thelma and Louise, at the end, turning the wheel would not have made a lot of difference.

    For Australian Chess, it is not too late. We still have one of the most marketable, and popular sports on the planet.
    In terms of organized games/players per day, soccer lags way behind.
    It is not too late for Australian Chess to play chess as the team’s sport that it clearly is. Proof?
    Check out the Olympiads of the past. Check out the Bundesliga. Check out every Team’s Comps. run by many countries in Europe and Asia today.

    Then go online!
    DSL is just one comp. with almost 3,000 players per year. Probably way more this year.
    Chess.com and Lichess and others all have teams and or leagues in which to play.

    And to those good souls on Chesschat who are deeply involved with the Novak debate –

    No one cares what you think about this subject. You are at the bottom of a well and there is NOBODY up top.
    WHY DON’T YOU HELP IN SOLVING THE MANY PROBLEMS THAT AUSTRALIAN CHESS HAS BEFORE WE GET UNDER 400 ADULT OTB PLAYERS NATIONWIDE.
    Figures for three recent Begonia, Doeberl and GC Open tournaments.

    2019 2018 2015 Event

    176 183 145 GC Open
    254 233 239 Doeberl Cup
    126 139 98 Begonia Open

    556 555 482

    Take out the Juniors – 30%, and you are probably left with 400 adult OTB players nationwide.
    Now, that’s something to talk about!

    Novak will have the best International and Domestic lawyers on the planet working on this.
    The Federal Govt. has rooms full of in-house lawyers to work on this. Plus, they will bring in outside counsel on a couple of grand per hour.

    Let’s work on something that we can actually change!

    Australian Teams Chess. - Check out your mates! (the slogan needs work)

  2. #2
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    Totally rediculous comparison.

  3. #3
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    You are right! A lot more Females play organized chess world wide than AFLW.
    How many Female chess teams are there in Australia?

    And thanks for contributing to the chess debate.
    I think we have about 8 or 9 people left who care about chess admin. on this site.
    Out of about 27 million people!
    Last edited by Kerry Corker; 08-01-2022 at 08:42 AM.

  4. #4
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    If we had women in mud wrestling chess we may have a chance. Chess is too intellectual, difficult, serious and shhhh for the masses. If you dumbed it down and hyped up the spectacular you might have a go. Have live chess with live bodies in costumes, dancing girls the lot, not joking. I had bikini chess here during schoolies but the pic got lost being sent to me. Was an amazing shot. Them all holding their piece and moving on call. Whacko, I will repeat one day.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  5. #5
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    Thanks for your input. Tongue in cheek is better than nothing.

    “Chess is too intellectual, difficult, serious and shhh for the masses”

    But we already have the masses participating. One site alone collects about A$600,000,000 per year.
    Expenditure on Rat. Prizes? $0.

    Chess.com anything from 5 million to 28 million.
    Lichess – 5 million
    Plus, heaps of other chess sites doing REALLY good business.
    Remember, say 15 million Chess.com accounts x A$40 per year = A$600 million per year.

    Make no mistake, chess is HUGE dollars, yen, dinars, whatever, all around the world.
    It is just OTB that no one wants a bar of, – statistically. How many at your local club?

    The “masses” are playing speed chess online in the millions. And they are loving it! And they love the format.

    Do those millions want to go offline and spend all weekend in a school room with 60-100 other sweaty males?
    No.

    “I had bikini chess here during schoolies, but the pic got lost.”

    The AFLW players don’t need to play in bikinis. And they are all paid, as are the administrators.
    And there are a LOT more Females who play chess, (online of course) than AFLW.
    Check out the Female Bundesliga for a start, DSL etc.

    Team’s competitions create their own economy.

    Individual competitions create, (stuffed if I can find something to put here.)…………………..maybe you can think of something – apart from individual championships.
    Collect the dosh Friday night and give it back on Sunday night. Repeat.
    Collect the dosh Friday night and give it back on Sunday night. Repeat.
    Collect the dosh Friday night and give it back on Sunday night. Repeat.

    No one is arguing that there are more than about 400 adult OTB players left in Australia.
    (Adults who play 3 or 4 or more weekenders/championships per year.)
    I doubt the number is so high but we’ll go with 400.

    They are my target audience because, for some reason, they seem to provide the template we use for organized chess in Australia.
    My task is something akin to walking into a synagogue and convincing everyone to convert to catholocism.
    The 400 are extremely happy with the “Chess Boom” that Australia is currently enjoying.

    It probably is too late to prevent the slide but I still think school kids should be given the opportunity to play for a team after Year 11/12– any team – even AFLW,!

    Australian Teams Chess is the answer to a very simple problem.

  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    re post 5 above.
    what you are saying is all correct of course and good on you and them and hopefully you get it up for chess. I just appreciate the social part of cleaning myself up even if via the surf before playing OTB, of the social interaction, of remembering the personalities and heroics and blunders of wins and losses.

    My favourite player who I adored, could be deceased now, didn't bath that often, wore beggars clothes, no teeth, everyone thought insane etc etc but I adored our chess, the laughs and pathos. I always brought him gifts and he appreciated it. No online games could replace that treasured 12 hour stints - completely forgetting to have meals.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerry Corker View Post
    Thanks for your input. Tongue in cheek is better than nothing.

    “Chess is too intellectual, difficult, serious and shhh for the masses”

    But we already have the masses participating. One site alone collects about A$600,000,000 per year.
    Expenditure on Rat. Prizes? $0.

    Chess.com anything from 5 million to 28 million.
    Lichess – 5 million
    Plus, heaps of other chess sites doing REALLY good business.
    Remember, say 15 million Chess.com accounts x A$40 per year = A$600 million per year.

    Make no mistake, chess is HUGE dollars, yen, dinars, whatever, all around the world.
    It is just OTB that no one wants a bar of, – statistically. How many at your local club?

    The “masses” are playing speed chess online in the millions. And they are loving it! And they love the format.

    Do those millions want to go offline and spend all weekend in a school room with 60-100 other sweaty males?
    No.

    “I had bikini chess here during schoolies, but the pic got lost.”

    The AFLW players don’t need to play in bikinis. And they are all paid, as are the administrators.
    And there are a LOT more Females who play chess, (online of course) than AFLW.
    Check out the Female Bundesliga for a start, DSL etc.

    Team’s competitions create their own economy.

    Individual competitions create, (stuffed if I can find something to put here.)…………………..maybe you can think of something – apart from individual championships.
    Collect the dosh Friday night and give it back on Sunday night. Repeat.
    Collect the dosh Friday night and give it back on Sunday night. Repeat.
    Collect the dosh Friday night and give it back on Sunday night. Repeat.

    No one is arguing that there are more than about 400 adult OTB players left in Australia.
    (Adults who play 3 or 4 or more weekenders/championships per year.)
    I doubt the number is so high but we’ll go with 400.

    They are my target audience because, for some reason, they seem to provide the template we use for organized chess in Australia.
    My task is something akin to walking into a synagogue and convincing everyone to convert to catholocism.
    The 400 are extremely happy with the “Chess Boom” that Australia is currently enjoying.

    It probably is too late to prevent the slide but I still think school kids should be given the opportunity to play for a team after Year 11/12– any team – even AFLW,!

    Australian Teams Chess is the answer to a very simple problem.
    Chess is an individual sport, it is one vs one. Yes you can add the results together into something like a team but it does not change the fact that it is an individual sport. AFLW is a team sport, you need multiple players to be able to play the game.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist View Post
    re post 5 above.
    what you are saying is all correct of course and good on you and them and hopefully you get it up for chess. I just appreciate the social part of cleaning myself up even if via the surf before playing OTB, of the social interaction, of remembering the personalities and heroics and blunders of wins and losses.

    My favourite player who I adored, could be deceased now, didn't bath that often, wore beggars clothes, no teeth, everyone thought insane etc etc but I adored our chess, the laughs and pathos. I always brought him gifts and he appreciated it. No online games could replace that treasured 12 hour stints - completely forgetting to have meals.
    You are right, there is something special about the OTB contest, it is simply superior to online chess.

  9. #9
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    I remember it was the last round of the Olympiad. We were playing Armenia. I was the last of our team to finish. The other 3 boards were 1.5 - 1.5. All we needed was to draw the match and we had our 1st top 5 finish. There was a huge crowd watching. My opponent was in desperate time trouble. All of a sudden, he offers me a draw. Normally I would have taken it but a win would give me my final GM norm, so I rejected his offer because I thought I had a win. And as you know, we have never had a top 5 finish. Back rank mate. Where did that come from you might ask. I too was curious, but I digress. My point is that I acted as an individual, in going for my GM norm. Had I taken the draw, I would have been hailed a hero for being a team player. So it can be both. Same as I can get one rugby player versus one other. Remember Rugby 7s. The number can be 15 or 7 or 1- doesn't really matter. It's a teams sport. As soon as FIDE wakes up to that, the better.
    Last edited by Kerry Corker; 10-01-2022 at 12:29 AM.

  10. #10
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    Bughouse is a team game, standard chess is an individual game.

    Rugby cannot be played 1v1, nor can AFLW

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    Bughouse is a team game, standard chess is an individual game.

    Rugby cannot be played 1v1, nor can AFLW
    As someone who has been involved in many team events both as a player, coach and organiser I strongly disagree with you.

    Also games like basketball, Rugby etc. could be played 1v1 with slight deviation (I played 1v1 basketball yesterday) Does it have all the same aspects of the game (passing etc.?) no but it can still be done.

    I would suggest you attend an inter-school state finals competition like those here in QLD or similar before you discount the team game idea, maybe you have not witnessed or been a part of it yourself in your club etc. but it definitely exists and is followed heavily.

    The Olympiad is a huge event for a reason, arguably followed more than most large scale events, people care about teams and are patriotic about their country etc.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun94 View Post
    As someone who has been involved in many team events both as a player, coach and organiser I strongly disagree with you.

    Also games like basketball, Rugby etc. could be played 1v1 with slight deviation (I played 1v1 basketball yesterday) Does it have all the same aspects of the game (passing etc.?) no but it can still be done.

    I would suggest you attend an inter-school state finals competition like those here in QLD or similar before you discount the team game idea, maybe you have not witnessed or been a part of it yourself in your club etc. but it definitely exists and is followed heavily.

    The Olympiad is a huge event for a reason, arguably followed more than most large scale events, people care about teams and are patriotic about their country etc.
    You are wrong. Competitve chess, even at an Olympiad, is played one person against one other person across a board. They are called individual boards.

    I know very little about Rugby but I don't think 1v1 is at all possible. 1v1 bastketball is of course possible.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    You are wrong. Competitve chess, even at an Olympiad, is played one person against one other person across a board. They are called individual boards.

    I know very little about Rugby but I don't think 1v1 is at all possible. 1v1 bastketball is of course possible.
    I'm definitely not wrong, I could play Rugby 1v1 with a friend right now like I did many times in high school.

    You are foolish if you believe it is only an individual game and I believe you lack experience (correct me if I am wrong but I doubt it), please do list team chess experience you may have.

    I understand chess is played by individuals just like in basketball one person scores x number of points per game etc. There are all kinds of team competitions based on individual scores also.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun94 View Post
    I'm definitely not wrong, I could play Rugby 1v1 with a friend right now like I did many times in high school.

    You are foolish if you believe it is only an individual game and I believe you lack experience (correct me if I am wrong but I doubt it), please do list team chess experience you may have.

    I understand chess is played by individuals just like in basketball one person scores x number of points per game etc. There are all kinds of team competitions based on individual scores also.
    I have played in teams competitions before, it is not that I lack experience.

    But everytime I have played on a team I played my own individual game against one other person. The individual scores were then added up to make the team score. It was not a team game, it was a group of individual games.

    I guess you could play chess as a team game where you get a group of people on each side to discuss what move to make and then make but that is not how competitive chess works. Competitive chess is a one on one contest.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Colliver View Post
    I have played in teams competitions before, it is not that I lack experience.

    But everytime I have played on a team I played my own individual game against one other person. The individual scores were then added up to make the team score. It was not a team game, it was a group of individual games.

    I guess you could play chess as a team game where you get a group of people on each side to discuss what move to make and then make but that is not how competitive chess works. Competitive chess is a one on one contest.
    May I ask what what team competitions you've played in? I feel there are varying levels from a club tournament to an interschool to interstate or international events and the team dynamic would vary.

    I have played and won national interschool competitions and coached a team to do the same. The team dynamic was a huge focus without it there would be no success.

    There are also sports such as tennis that has a team event, sports have relay races also each person runs individually.... That's a stretch of an example but there are plenty.

    Chess can be a team game, in Queensland amongst school children it absolutely is and has been for many years. I would invite you to look into such competitions especially state finals as it may help you understand something you may not have experienced.

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