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  1. #46
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    If Labor has prespent money years into future well at least it is on butter and education and infrastructure and not stupid wars in M/E etc that made almost no difference to situations there. How many billion $ have war on terror cost us? All virtually wasted, should have been on humanitarian aid instead.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  2. #47
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    Joe Hockey seems to have abandoned any Coalition promise of returning the Budget to surplus. Which we can all be grateful for, as without the deficit we'd be in a serious recession.

    Given the continuing bad economic news (Holden, Qantas, mining, etc), and the collapse in confidence since the election, let's hope that the Coalition can stop playing politics with the economy and start to actually talk the economy up. Otherwise it could be a gloomy Christmas.

  3. #48
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Qantas is in trouble due to Asian ventures that were disasterous. Now JOyce wants to trash the company to get over disasters, whom we won't attribute to anyone
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  4. #49
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Joe Hockey seems to have abandoned any Coalition promise of returning the Budget to surplus. Which we can all be grateful for, as without the deficit we'd be in a serious recession.
    Of course, the government has no money of its own, so its spending programs must rely on money coerced from others by borrowing or taxing from the productive people (inflation is an insidious hidden tax caused by printing money). Many Australians, like most Americans, are addicted to other people's money.

    Hooked On Other People’s Money
    Malcolm Wedd, Quadrant, 17 Dec 2013

    The thing about politicians is that they aim to be re-elected. As for voters, they want lots of free stuff. Put those imperatives together, mix well in a ballot box and what you get is a mess that only conservative governments—genuinely conservative governments, that is—can hope to fix.

    If Karl Marx had lived until current times he might have realised how badly he misread human nature and how his followers consigned hundreds of millions of people to decades of misery, poverty and failure. Blessed with the wisdom of advanced years, he may also have adjusted his observation about religion to read: Other People’s Money, the opiate of the masses.

    Author and US academic, the late Elmer T. Peterson, is reputed to have said:

    “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result that democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship.”

    Peterson’s insight explains why successive changes in government, from leftist to conservative and vice versa, always seem to result in a slow drift to the left as increasing numbers of voters refuse to tolerate cuts in their OPM supplies. Leftist governments naturally provide more OPM; meanwhile, allegedly conservative governments grow too timid to crimp access to the OPM supply. Even more alarming, both sides of politics are continually finding ways to re-distribute even larger sums. Europe is now dealing with the sort of crisis that results from this process. Bizarrely, the Eurozone nations are trying to fix the problem with ever greater infusions of OPM. In some countries, governments will be voted out of office for trying to fix the problem.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono View Post
    Of course, the government has no money of its own, so its spending programs must rely on money coerced from others by borrowing or taxing from the productive people (inflation is an insidious hidden tax caused by printing money). Many Australians, like most Americans, are addicted to other people's money.
    Speaking of relying on other people's money:
    [Tim] Wilson said he had not worked out what his specific agenda would be and had not decided if he would be lobbying for rights to be enshrined in legislation.
    He said he had accepted the taxpayer-funded position, which pays more than $300,000 a year, because he believed it would be a challenge.
    “I’m a classic liberal, I do believe in some taxation and the government has made the decision to keep the Human Rights Commission,” he said.
    “If it is going to exist I want to make sure it advances basic human rights.”
    When asked if he supported the abolition of the commission, Wilson said he was going to “leave my comments there”.
    and
    The former Liberal frontbencher, Sophie Mirabella, has been appointed to the board of a federal government submarine maintenance organisation, a role that pays $71,680 a year.

    It's funny how these 'small government liberals' are happy to support government spending when it benefits them. It would be funny, except that Tony Abbott is cutting support for the elderly and the disabled to pay for their salaries.

  6. #51
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    from Patrick above:
    The former Liberal frontbencher, Sophie Mirabella, has been appointed to the board of a federal government submarine maintenance organisation, a role that pays $71,680 a year.

    AC
    what?? Sophie is the biggest sunk submarine ever launched - she never floated in any context. A rare opposition member losing their seat in parliament coz was despised greatly.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  7. #52

  8. #53
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Speaking of relying on other people's money:
    [Tim] Wilson said he had not worked out what his specific agenda would be and had not decided if he would be lobbying for rights to be enshrined in legislation.
    He said he had accepted the taxpayer-funded position, which pays more than $300,000 a year, because he believed it would be a challenge.
    “I’m a classic liberal, I do believe in some taxation and the government has made the decision to keep the Human Rights Commission,” he said.
    “If it is going to exist I want to make sure it advances basic human rights.”
    When asked if he supported the abolition of the commission, Wilson said he was going to “leave my comments there”.
    and
    The former Liberal frontbencher, Sophie Mirabella, has been appointed to the board of a federal government submarine maintenance organisation, a role that pays $71,680 a year.

    It's funny how these 'small government liberals' are happy to support government spending when it benefits them. It would be funny, except that Tony Abbott is cutting support for the elderly and the disabled to pay for their salaries.
    You won't see any objection from me if these government departments went the way of the Department of Climate Change.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  9. #54
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Tony says he is going to make the tough decisions.

    One of the main things killing manufacturing is wage prices in this country.

    Wage prices are high largely because housing cost is high. Housing cost is high largely due to negative gearing.

    This is the tough decision that needs to be made.
    meep meep

  10. #55
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    Tony says he is going to make the tough decisions.

    One of the main things killing manufacturing is wage prices in this country.

    Wage prices are high largely because housing cost is high. Housing cost is high largely due to negative gearing.

    This is the tough decision that needs to be made.
    Negative gearing is not such a clear cut issue. Properties can become negatively geared due to massive repairs that are necessary for the premises to stay habitable. They may have necessitated due to damage by

    bad tenants, with no landlord insurance cover. Negative gearing from day one is a clear cut issue if expected to last for years.

    Some working people will never get their act together due to living the good life - pokies, grog, expensive holidays & cloths, appliances, cars. This is where the saver and investor sort of lends a hand that is in both their interests.

    I think Keating ruled out negative gearing for a few years and investment in rental properties collapsed. And we have a massive migration. So take away neg g. and rentals prices can sky rocket like has happened after GFC and a similar downturn in housing production.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    ...Housing cost is high largely due to negative gearing...
    Didn't Labor explore this path in the past? what was the result?
    What is the proportion of dwellings that are negatively geared? What is the proportion of dwelling that rented vis a vis owner occupied?

    Maybe rent is still affordable due to negative gearing?

    Wage prices at some manufacturers like Holden/Ford are indeed high - because they are fixed by the cartel called AMU, which is part of another cartel called ACTU.
    And high wages only part of the problem. The fact that Holden executive can't even sneeze without unions permission is another problem. If you have a very low productivity coupled with very high wages, even government handout won't help.

    Don't know what is your grief with negative gearing, but attempt to link manufacturing is a very long bow (that is also pointed in the wrong direction).
    For private coaching (IM, four times VIC champion) call or SMS 0417519733
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Speaking of relying on other people's money:
    [Tim] Wilson said he had not worked out what his specific agenda would be and had not decided if he would be lobbying for rights to be enshrined in legislation.
    He said he had accepted the taxpayer-funded position, which pays more than $300,000 a year, because he believed it would be a challenge.
    “I’m a classic liberal, I do believe in some taxation and the government has made the decision to keep the Human Rights Commission,” he said.
    “If it is going to exist I want to make sure it advances basic human rights.”
    When asked if he supported the abolition of the commission, Wilson said he was going to “leave my comments there”.
    and
    The former Liberal frontbencher, Sophie Mirabella, has been appointed to the board of a federal government submarine maintenance organisation, a role that pays $71,680 a year.

    It's funny how these 'small government liberals' are happy to support government spending when it benefits them. It would be funny, except that Tony Abbott is cutting support for the elderly and the disabled to pay for their salaries.
    Patrick,

    I take it you also object to governor-general being a republican, let alone talking about it openly?
    For private coaching (IM, four times VIC champion) call or SMS 0417519733
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  13. #58
    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg View Post
    Don't know what is your grief with negative gearing,
    I am against middle class welfare. Are you?
    meep meep

  14. #59
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner View Post
    I am against middle class welfare. Are you?
    It's not just middle class welfare. The very rich are also using negative gearing as a tax minimisation strategy. Negative gearing doesn't necessarily need to be wiped out entirely but placing some limits on it availability with regards rental property should be looked into.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  15. #60
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    If HOward did not cut the amount to be accessed for Capital Gains Tax by 50% I think there would be a lot less incentive for negative gearing and speculating in the property market.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

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