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Thread: Dutch Defence

  1. #16
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    I always struggled to get an advantage against Leningrad (and rarely succeeded). Stonewall is quite sound as well (maybe not at David Smerdon's level, but alright for the rest of us).

    I wouldn't advice to combine them, though. As Max pointed out, after 8.d5 black has pain for no gain.
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  2. #17
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Igor_Goldenberg
    I wouldn't advice to combine them, though. As Max pointed out, after 8.d5 black has pain for no gain.
    I will continue to play it until i am comprehensively beaten multiple times, a disadvantage is not a loss and can be turned around.
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  3. #18
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    I think big George was defeated by stonewall circa 2000 coz he may have never learnt it
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  4. #19
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    @antichrist

    Indeed one advantage of the Dutch Defence is that not many players below 2400 have a very well-prepared answer to it. If I recall correctly John Cox lost badly to Kovacevic in a Colle System (which ended up becoming a Stonewall structure after Ne5 and f4) before he started taking the line seriously.

    @James Peirce

    That is true and to be honest the opening won't have a big influence on your game results (unless one of the players makes an early blunder). Still it's easier to win from an equal position than from an inferior one!

    @Igor_Goldenberg

    Actually my assessment of the Dutch might have been too pessimistic as Nakamura and Kamsky have played the 7...c6 Leningrad successfully as a surprise weapon.

    While on the subject of the Leningrad, Mikhail Gurevich liked to use the 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nf3 f5 move order to avoid a large number of Anti-Dutch systems. I guess that's another attraction of the Dutch: you can use any of (after 1.d4) 1...f5, 1...e6, 1...d6, 1...d5, 1...g6 and 1...c6 to reach Dutch positions in at least some of your games.
    Last edited by Max Illingworth; 17-08-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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  5. #20
    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    Give me a "C"!
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  6. #21
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    I am a fan of the Leningrad Dutch. A few games of mine with it are on Chess Chat. I have NEVER combined it with the Stonewall though. (Main reason: I think my d pawn belongs on d6 not d5 to keep White out of e5.)
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max Illingworth
    @Igor_Goldenberg

    Actually my assessment of the Dutch might have been too pessimistic as Nakamura and Kamsky have played the 7...c6 Leningrad successfully as a surprise weapon.

    While on the subject of the Leningrad, Mikhail Gurevich liked to use the 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.Nf3 f5 move order to avoid a large number of Anti-Dutch systems. I guess that's another attraction of the Dutch: you can use any of (after 1.d4) 1...f5, 1...e6, 1...d6, 1...d5, 1...g6 and 1...c6 to reach Dutch positions in at least some of your games.
    Leningrad with c6 is OK (Depasquale played it against me once and I didn't get anything out of the opening), as it's usually followed by d6 e5 anyway.. It's inclusion of ...e6 that seems dubious.
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  8. #23
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    Stonewall would be a lovely opening for Black..if not for black's white square bishop often ending up as a ''bad biship''. Leningrad would be good too...if not for the same bishop . So..blame the bishop!
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  9. #24
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    I now switched to the Be7 stonewall line the best way i can find to develop that white squared bishop is by means of the manovoure Bd7-e8-g6 or h5
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  10. #25
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Against the Dutch, it can't be a Trompovsky! I lost badly in a Dutch Leningrad last night. Missed a nasty Ba3 winning exchange.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski View Post
    Against the Dutch, it can't be a Trompovsky! I lost badly in a Dutch Leningrad last night. Missed a nasty Ba3 winning exchange.
    Most move orders, can be Trompovsky against the Dutch. Actually lots of tricky systems possible against Dutch/Leningrad such as c3, Nh3 etc.
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil View Post
    May we have a 'C' in defense in the thread title please.
    Lol. Good catch

  13. #28
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil View Post
    May we have a 'C' in defense in the thread title please.
    All things come* to those who wait! Fixed.


    * Except unbanning for permanently-banned trolls, of course.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    All things come* to those who wait! Fixed.
    Not exactly at the speed of light.
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  15. #30
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    It took so long that it became my 2nd favourite opening against 1. d4 (after the Kings Indian)
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