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  1. #1
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    Dutch Defence

    Since no one appears to have created a thread for this allready.
    I henceforth announce the Dutch Defense thread open.
    It seems that most people are inclined to dismiss it as 'inferior' without giving any evidence.
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  2. #2
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    This is my variant of the Dutch Defense that combines the Leningrad with the stonewall.
    It can be found here http://chessmicrobase.com/g/tms8ff2z
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    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Peirce View Post
    This is my variant of the Dutch Defense that combines the Leningrad with the stonewall.
    It can be found here http://chessmicrobase.com/g/tms8ff2z
    A good way to combine the drawbacks of both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    A good way to combine the drawbacks of both.
    Black got to be careful though not to end up with a bad black square bishop. Also white can aim for b4-b5 undermining black pawn chain (similar to how its done in Carlsbad variation of Queen's gabmit) and if successful, I do not fancy black's chances of holding its queenside.
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    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelBaron View Post
    Black got to be careful though not to end up with a bad black square bishop. Also white can aim for b4-b5 undermining black pawn chain (similar to how its done in Carlsbad variation of Queen's gabmit) and if successful, I do not fancy black's chances of holding its queenside.
    My comment was a recommendation against the line.
    “The history of the 20th century is full of examples of countries that set out to redistribute wealth and ended up redistributing poverty.”
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  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Peirce
    It seems that most people are inclined to dismiss it as 'inferior' without giving any evidence.
    I'm certainly not dismissing it but the evidence is there if you want to look.

    CB online gives 59% for White after d4 f5 g3 whereas only 53% after d4 Nf6 c4.

    cheers
    Garrett.

  7. #7
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    Considering the fact that the average game has a white wins probability of around 55 % it is hardly a huge difference.
    Also as has been previously stated on other threads, win percentages of positions and openings are only useful if we understand why it is a win or a loss. Saying it has a win percentage against of 59% hardly proves it is inferior.
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    In the variation you give, I don't see a good way for Black to play after 8.d5 (8...d6 9.Nd4 and an incursion to e6 will pose real problems).

    As for the more mainstream Dutch variations, games like Radjabov-Ivanchuk, Wang Yue-Agdestein and Ftacnik-Smerdon illustrate why the Dutch isn't very popular at the highest level. That doesn't mean it can't be played successfully below super-GM level as e.g. Gleizerov has shown.
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    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Max Illingworth]In the variation you give, I don't see a good way for Black to play after 8.d5 (8...d6 9.Nd4 and an incursion to e6 will pose real problems).QUOTE]
    I will get back to you with some of my work on that line in particular
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  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Best analysis of the Dutch ever published:

    GM David Smerdon: An Open Letter To The Stonewall

    At club level it's probably fine. I tend to avoid letting people transpose into it and those who've seen either of my losses against Reg Harvey's white version would probably have some idea why.

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