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Thread: Dutch Defence

  1. #1
    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    Dutch Defence

    Since no one appears to have created a thread for this allready.
    I henceforth announce the Dutch Defense thread open.
    It seems that most people are inclined to dismiss it as 'inferior' without giving any evidence.
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    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    This is my variant of the Dutch Defense that combines the Leningrad with the stonewall.
    It can be found here http://chessmicrobase.com/g/tms8ff2z
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    CC Grandmaster Garrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Peirce
    It seems that most people are inclined to dismiss it as 'inferior' without giving any evidence.
    I'm certainly not dismissing it but the evidence is there if you want to look.

    CB online gives 59% for White after d4 f5 g3 whereas only 53% after d4 Nf6 c4.

    cheers
    Garrett.

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    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    Considering the fact that the average game has a white wins probability of around 55 % it is hardly a huge difference.
    Also as has been previously stated on other threads, win percentages of positions and openings are only useful if we understand why it is a win or a loss. Saying it has a win percentage against of 59% hardly proves it is inferior.
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    In the variation you give, I don't see a good way for Black to play after 8.d5 (8...d6 9.Nd4 and an incursion to e6 will pose real problems).

    As for the more mainstream Dutch variations, games like Radjabov-Ivanchuk, Wang Yue-Agdestein and Ftacnik-Smerdon illustrate why the Dutch isn't very popular at the highest level. That doesn't mean it can't be played successfully below super-GM level as e.g. Gleizerov has shown.
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    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Max Illingworth]In the variation you give, I don't see a good way for Black to play after 8.d5 (8...d6 9.Nd4 and an incursion to e6 will pose real problems).QUOTE]
    I will get back to you with some of my work on that line in particular
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  7. #7
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Best analysis of the Dutch ever published:

    GM David Smerdon: An Open Letter To The Stonewall

    At club level it's probably fine. I tend to avoid letting people transpose into it and those who've seen either of my losses against Reg Harvey's white version would probably have some idea why.

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    I've always been suspicious of the Dutch, it just seems that its fundamental basis is unsound

    Still playable at a non gm level of course, but still theoretically unsound
    One day I'll put something clever here, but for now this will just have to do.

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    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    CC FIDE Master James Peirce's Avatar
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    after 8.d5 exchanging of pawns leaves black with an isolated d-pawn but opens up the position for the black bishops.
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    CC Grandmaster Denis_Jessop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Watson
    I've always been suspicious of the Dutch, it just seems that its fundamental basis is unsound

    Still playable at a non gm level of course, but still theoretically unsound
    That seems a rather extreme view given that it was successfully used by Botvinnik including a win against Bronstein in their 1951 WC match. There are very few, if any, openings that have been demonstrably totally refuted though many are out of fashion.

    DJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denis_Jessop
    That seems a rather extreme view given that it was successfully used by Botvinnik including a win against Bronstein in their 1951 WC match. There are very few, if any, openings that have been demonstrably totally refuted though many are out of fashion.

    DJ
    I guess my wording is a little strong, what I mean is that it is perhaps less optimal or perhaps less correct than other alternatives black has
    One day I'll put something clever here, but for now this will just have to do.

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    CC Grandmaster Basil's Avatar
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    May we have a 'C' in defense in the thread title please.
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    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Underpants
    May we have a 'C' in defense in the thread title please.
    do you want another Trompalsky game one day, I still gotta finish that game with Boris RR one day
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    CC Grandmaster road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antichrist
    do you want another Trompalsky game one day, I still gotta finish that game with Boris RR one day
    What game?
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