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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Bye-bye Folau (probably):
    Israel Folau’s future in Australian rugby is looking increasingly grim after a independent panel determined that the Wallabies superstar committed a “high level” breach of his contract. The three-person panel of chair John West QC, Rugby Australia representative Kate Eastman SC and the RUPA-appointed John Boultbee have now retired to decide on Folau’s sanction following a lengthy code of conduct hearing in Sydney.
    A "high level" breach means that he can be sacked.
    And now he has been sacked.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    And now he has been sacked.
    This is better news for Israel than a fine or suspension. I understand he will now skip his right to a second code of conduct panel and head directly to court. Code of conduct breaches are obviously a big deal for RA. The RA code of conduct for administrators says that that you “do not make any public comment that is critical of … a player, (an) employee of any club or a union … or on any matter that is, or is likely to be, the subject of an investigation or disciplinary process …” If RA were consistent, the code of conduct should mean the immediate sacking of Raelene Castle, Michael Cheika and Daryl Gibson, who were all publicly critical of Folau before he had a hearing - and even before an independent panel had been constituted.

  3. #108
    CC Grandmaster antichrist's Avatar
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    I feel some sorrow for Israel, he is a product of his community that he embraces strongly. We could just as well blame religious schools, churches and literature etc.. Such institutions get exemptions from the Anti-Discrimination Act so the various governments are also to blame for the end product, i.e. Israel. What he is stated is cruel and unnecessary and he demonstrates he is not the brightest in not listening to his lawyer to apologise and withdraw the remark. But until the Bible is culled there will always be victims on one side of the fence or the other.
    Zionism is racism as defined by the UN, Israel by every dirty means available steals land and water, kill Palestinian freedom fighters and civilians, and operates an apartheid system to drive more Palestinians off their land

  4. #109
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    The rank hypocrisy and christophobia of Rugby Union bosses and Qantas

    Alan Jones blasts major sponsor of Rugby Australia: ‘They have contracts with organisations whose treatment of women and homosexuals is repugnant’
    "Christianity is under siege everywhere around the world," Jones also warned.
    Caldron Pool, 17 May 2019

    Alan Jones has blasted Qantas, suggesting the major sponsor for Rugby Australia is also responsible for ending Israel Folau’s rugby career.

    Speaking to 2GB’s Ben Fordham, Jones said: “This is the same sponsor who has a contract with Middle Eastern airline companies whose treatment of women and homosexuals is repugnant.

    “We’re talking money from an entity which has a corporate engagement with international organisations whose treatment of women and homosexuals is totally unacceptable to the moral standards of Australians, but that’s OK. That seems to be OK.

    “It’s OK to punch someone and you get six weeks. It’s OK to be on drugs and you get reinstated, but if the boy dares to proclaim his commitment to Christianity he’s banned for life,” Jones said.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capablanca-Fan View Post
    Alan Jones blasts major sponsor of Rugby Australia: ‘They have contracts with organisations whose treatment of women and homosexuals is repugnant’
    "Christianity is under siege everywhere around the world," Jones also warned. Caldron Pool, 17 May 2019
    Folau was sacked because he violated his code of conduct. And he was sacked by Rugby Australia - Qantas had no involvement.

  6. #111
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    More on the rank hypocrisy of Rugby Australia

    Dear Izzy, If Only You Had Behaved Like An Elite Athlete
    Akos Balogh

    What were you thinking, Izzy?

    So, in case you still don’t get it, let me get specific about what acceptable bad behaviour looks like for elite athletes. SMH sports writer Darren Kane has put together a nice list, which I’ll share with you now.

    If your wife had been heavily pregnant, and you layed your boot into her stomach while she lay on the floor cowering in the foetal position, you would not be banned.

    If you had picked up your ex-girlfriend and hurled her into a garage door at 2am following an epic bender, you’d still be on track for your job. If you had only kicked the livin’ daylights out of an unconscious man lying in the gutter, outside a nightclub, you could have avoided this heartache you’re now in.

    But no, Izzy. You had to go all the way and do something so much worse than these acceptable misbehaviours: you shared the Bible’s message on your own social media page. Now that is unacceptable.

    (I mean, it’s not like Rugby Australia could have come out and said ‘While Israel Folau’s views are not those of Rugby Australia or its affiliates, he has not broken any law and is entitled to his own views as an employee in a free country.’)

    Look, had you merely smashed an opponent’s jaw to smithereens in a pre-meditated on-field incident, or gouged at an opponent player’s eyes with all the fervour of a nine-year-old excising the last skerrick of ice cream from a four-litre tub, you’d be back on the field sooner than you could say ‘Qantas airlines’.

    If all you had done was manhandled referees, assaulted teammates and bashed them to a pulp, or stolen money from your fellow players’ wallets while they weren’t looking, you would eventually be right to play.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Folau was sacked because he violated his code of conduct. And he was sacked by Rugby Australia - Qantas had no involvement.
    Folau claims that he didn't and is taking his case for wrongful dismissal to the courts. If it is determined that the code of conduct has been breached and that the breach warrants dismissal, then Castle and Cheika should also be disciplined for their code of conduct breaches. RA's failure to take action against them leaves it open to the charge that it is applying one set of standards to players and another to coaches and administrators.

    Whatever happens in the matter of Folau v. RA, the advice from clinical psychologists is that those who say they are acting in the interests of anxious, vulnerable young homosexuals are actually doing them more harm than they realise - and certainly more harm than Folau's instagram post about the Christian teaching that repentance is for everyone, including homosexuals.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    Folau claims that he didn't and is taking his case for wrongful dismissal to the courts. If it is determined that the code of conduct has been breached and that the breach warrants dismissal, then Castle and Cheika should also be disciplined for their code of conduct breaches. RA's failure to take action against them leaves it open to the charge that it is applying one set of standards to players and another to coaches and administrators.
    I thought Folau was arguing that it was a religious freedom case?

    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    Whatever happens in the matter of Folau v. RA, the advice from clinical psychologists is that those who say they are acting in the interests of anxious, vulnerable young homosexuals are actually doing them more harm than they realise - and certainly more harm than Folau's instagram post about the Christian teaching that repentance is for everyone, including homosexuals.
    Please quote this advice. I don't see how Folau saying that young people are destined for hell because of the way they were born is going to help them.

  9. #114
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    Whatever happens in the matter of Folau v. RA, the advice from clinical psychologists is that those who say they are acting in the interests of anxious, vulnerable young homosexuals are actually doing them more harm than they realise - and certainly more harm than Folau's instagram post about the Christian teaching that repentance is for everyone, including homosexuals.
    Is this clinical psychologists we should be taking seriously on this, or is it Jordan Petersen or others like him (if there are any)?

    I'm actually leaning to the view that Folau shouldn't be banned - but on a condition. That condition is that if someone wants to go to the rugby with a banner that declares Folau to be a really silly homophobe and heckle him in a way that does not interfere with the play, they will not be evicted from the stadium.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I thought Folau was arguing that it was a religious freedom case?
    I have not seen Folau's defence. If you have, please post it. At the moment it's an allegation by RA that Folau was sacked because he breached his contract. By responding as they did, Castle and Cheika seem to be in clear breach of their code of conduct. The question remains: why should RA discipline players who are alleged to be in breach of the code, but not discipline coaches and administrators?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    Please quote this advice.
    You might enjoy reading The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure

    by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathon Haidt.

    Here's a short taster of where I'm coming from on this: The Savage Empathy of Safe Spaces

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Byrom View Post
    I don't see how Folau saying that young people are destined for hell because of the way they were born is going to help them.
    How very binary - and how very Calvinist!

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    I have not seen Folau's defence. If you have, please post it. ...
    I was basing my comments on what you've said previously - I haven't seen his defence.

    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    You might enjoy reading The Coddling of the American Mind: How Good Intentions and Bad Ideas Are Setting Up a Generation for Failure ​ by Greg Lukianoff and Jonathon Haidt. Here's a short taster of where I'm coming from on this: The Savage Empathy of Safe Spaces
    Are they clinical psychologists? And they don't seem to be dealing specifically with conflicted teenagers?

    Quote Originally Posted by idledim View Post
    How very binary - and how very Calvinist!
    Do you believe that you choose who you are attracted to?

  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham View Post
    Is this clinical psychologists we should be taking seriously on this, or is it Jordan Petersen or others like him (if there are any)?

    I'm actually leaning to the view that Folau shouldn't be banned - but on a condition. That condition is that if someone wants to go to the rugby with a banner that declares Folau to be a really silly homophobe and heckle him in a way that does not interfere with the play, they will not be evicted from the stadium.
    Dr. Peterson (note spelling) is indeed a clinical psychologist and a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto. I'm not a big fan of his bestselling book 12 Rules, but would highly recommend Maps of Meaning to anyone interested in the psychology of religion. His views on avoidance, trigger warnings, safe spaces and microagressions are apparently commonplace among clinical psychologists - though less so elsewhere.

    Of course, it should hardly matter - though it seems to matter to you - who the spokesperson is. Either anxious young homosexuals are going to feel less anxious as a result of the high profile given by RA to an instagram post by a rugby player, or they are not - and since it is a common view among clinical psychologists that they will not feel less anxious, I think we would have done better by letting that post go through to the keeper - where it would most likely have just disappeared down the long furrow of history.

    As for your suggested conditions: I agree. However if, as seems likely, Folau isn't playing, the 'silly homophobe' banner wavers might well be the only ones there - going by the recent home ground attendances for the Waratahs.

  13. #118
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    "`Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. leviticus 19
    are the wallabies outfits poly/cotton? i dont see izzy and the church ever making an issue of this.
    if some parts of the bibles tenets are redundant and others not then church leaders could attempt to redact and modernise it and not give people like poor izzy this dilemma.

  14. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by guruduff View Post
    "`Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. leviticus 19
    are the wallabies outfits poly/cotton? i dont see izzy and the church ever making an issue of this.
    if some parts of the bibles tenets are redundant and others not then church leaders could attempt to redact and modernise it and not give people like poor izzy this dilemma.
    Indeed - even people who are not church leaders (like myself) could attempt this.
    So, in the spirit of ecumenism and compromise, and with apologies to the Apostle Paul:

    All unrepentant fornicators are going to hell (including homosexuals, because they're not special) - and especially those who slaughter polyesters.

  15. #120
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by guruduff View Post
    "`Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. leviticus 19
    are the wallabies outfits poly/cotton? i dont see izzy and the church ever making an issue of this.
    if some parts of the bibles tenets are redundant and others not then church leaders could attempt to redact and modernise it and not give people like poor izzy this dilemma.
    Do try to learn some basics, such as the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ.
    “The destructive capacity of the individual, however vicious, is small; of the state, however well-intentioned, almost limitless. Expand the state and that destructive capacity necessarily expands, too, pari passu.”—Paul Johnson, Modern Times, 1983.

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