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Thread: Zonal Titles

  1. #1
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Zonal Titles

    The following FIDE Titles (excluding CM and WCM) have been awarded from Oceania Zonals since 1999.

    1999 Gold Coast
    IM
    FELDMAN, Valdimir
    BEREZINA-FELDMAN, Irina
    SMERDON, David

    FM
    KULASHKO, Alexsei (NZL)
    REILLY, Tim
    SAW, Geoff
    TINDALL, Brett
    WEEKS, Manuel
    REEVES, Tristan
    DWYER, Daniel
    STAWSKI, Nik
    ZHAO, Zong Yuan
    SZUVEGES, Grant

    WIM
    MOYLAN, Laura

    WFM
    JOHNS-PUTRA, Geraldine
    SZUVEGES, Narelle

    2000 Auckland
    IM
    ZHAO, Zong Yuan
    KER, Anthony (NZL)

    FM
    WATSON, Bruce (NZL)
    LUKEY, Stephen (NZL)

    2001 Gold Coast
    IM
    CHAPMAN, Mark

    FM
    WASTNEY, Scott (NZL)
    ALLEN, Andrew
    JONES, Lee

    WIM
    KOSHNITSKY, Ngan

    2002 Fiji
    IM
    RUJEVIC, Mirko

    FM
    JONES, Brian
    GREEN, Peter (NZL)

    WIM
    LANE, Nancy

    WFM
    LIP, Catherine

    2005 Auckland
    IM
    GARBETT, Paul (NZL)

    FM
    HUMPHREY, Jonathon
    GUTHIE, Aaron

    WIM
    SZUVEGES, Narelle

    WFM
    SONG, Angela
    OLIVER, Shannon

    2007 Fiji
    IM
    WANG, Puchen (NZL)

    FM
    MORRIS, James
    NAKAUCHI, Gene

    WIM
    JULE, Alexandra

    WFM
    MAROROA, Sue (NZL)
    HARRIS, Rebecca

    2009 Gold Coast
    IM
    MORRIS, James

    FM
    CHENG, Bobby
    STEADMAN, Mike (NZL)

    WIM
    MAROROA, Sue (NZL)

    WFM
    REID, Vaness
    GUO, Emma

    2011 Rotorua
    IM
    BROWN, Andrew

    FM
    LY, Mouthun
    OLIVER, Gareth

    WIM
    GUO, Emma

    WFM
    SETIABUDI, Megan
    TSOI, Nicole (NZL)

    2013 Fiji
    IM
    BJELOBRK, Igor
    DALE, Ari

    FM
    SMIRNOV, Anton
    TAN, Justin (Actually awarded the FM title based on rating in early June following the rating of the event)

    WIM
    JAREK, Katherine

    WFM
    NARENTHRAN, Savithri
    VUKIKOMOALA, Hilda (FIJ)

    2015 Sydney
    IM
    McCLYMONT, Brodie

    FM
    CHEN, Pengyu
    LOH, Zachary
    O'CHEE, Kevin

    WIM
    None

    WFM
    QUEK, Kristine

    2017 auckland
    IM
    None

    FM
    CHAN, Luis
    CHEW LEE, Max
    CHOONG, Yita
    GONG, Daniel Hanwen (NZL)
    HU, Jason
    KETHRO, Michael
    LOUIE, Ryan
    MALLARI, Donato
    McLAREN, Leonard J (NZL)
    SOO-BURROWES, Eliot W
    TSAI, Charles

    WIM
    TIMERGAZI, Layla (NZL)

    WFM
    CHIBNALL, Alana
    GUO, Zhi Lin
    HARDEGEN, Kathryn
    ZHANG, Jasmine Haomo
    Last edited by Bill Gletsos; 18-06-2013 at 07:17 PM. Reason: updated
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  2. #2
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    This post now out of date - updated in #12

    A useful list because it provides an opportunity to look at how many of those players of the list would have achieved the title listed anyway.

    There are 54 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 44 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

    Of the dual holders:

    * Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
    * Guo and Maroroa are both very close to achieving the rating requirements for WFM the normal way.
    * I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

    Of the single holders, the following have later achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

    IM (8 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Wang, Chapman - but I am not sure whether Chapman would have enough norms
    WIM (5 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
    FM (23 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson, Saw (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
    WFM (8 holders excluding duals): Nil

    Thus in total of 49 winners of 54 zonal titles, it seems around 13 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 15 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 31-08-2014 at 09:13 AM.

  3. #3
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    Aaron Guthrie gained the FM title from the 2005 Zonal Tournament

    http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=3203158

    I think it was going to go to Igor but he applied to get it the normal way, being over 2300, so it went to Aaron instead.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    A useful list because it provides an opportunity to look at how many of those players of the list would have achieved the title listed anyway.

    There are 54 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 44 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

    Of the dual holders:

    * Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
    * Guo and Maroroa are both very close to achieving the rating requirements for WFM the normal way.
    * I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

    Of the single holders, the following have later achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

    IM (8 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Chapman - but I am not sure whether Chapman would have enough norms
    WIM (5 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
    FM (23 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Bjelobrk, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
    WFM (8 holders excluding duals): Nil

    Thus in total of 49 winners of 54 zonal titles, it seems around 12 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 14 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.
    I think Mark Chapman would have at least 2 norms, the zonal where he got the title and 2003 Australian Championship although I am not sure whether I have ever done the full calculations for both tournaments. However he finished half a point ahead of Trevor Tao in that Australian Championships and they would have played similar strength fields. He has played an Australian Open in Sydney since then where he performed just above 2400 from memory, but I am not sure whether it would have been a norm. Anything before 2000 I have no idea about.

  5. #5
    Illuminati Bill Gletsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oepty
    Aaron Guthrie gained the FM title from the 2005 Zonal Tournament

    http://ratings.fide.com/card.phtml?event=3203158

    I think it was going to go to Igor but he applied to get it the normal way, being over 2300, so it went to Aaron instead.
    I have updated the original post.
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  6. #6
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Thus in total of 50 winners of 55 zonal titles, it seems around 12 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 14 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.
    A useful analysis. With ZYZ and Smurf, there is an a fortiori argument that they later achieved a higher title by normal means than they won at the zonal by zonal rules. IIRC, as well, their performance ratings in the Zonals where they achieved their IM titles were higher than the rating requirement for the title. Quite a contrast with many Zonal FMs who have never achieved a 2300 rating.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    A useful list because it provides an opportunity to look at how many of those players of the list would have achieved the title listed anyway.

    There are 55 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 45 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

    Of the dual holders:

    * Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
    * Guo and Maroroa are both very close to achieving the rating requirements for WFM the normal way.
    * I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

    Of the single holders, the following have later achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

    IM (8 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Chapman - but I am not sure whether Chapman would have enough norms
    WIM (5 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
    FM (24 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Bjelobrk, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
    WFM (8 holders excluding duals): Nil

    Thus in total of 50 winners of 55 zonal titles, it seems around 12 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 14 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.
    In the IM list Puchen Wang NZL has certainly achieved the rating requirement, peak 2478. I would also suspect he would have the norms as well.
    Michael F

  8. #8
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by braindied
    In the IM list Puchen Wang NZL has certainly achieved the rating requirement, peak 2478. I would also suspect he would have the norms as well.
    Thanks; post edited.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    With ZYZ and Smurf, there is an a fortiori argument that they later achieved a higher title by normal means than they won at the zonal by zonal rules.
    Likewise for Ly and as soon as his title is cleared by FIDE Cheng.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham
    Thanks; post edited.



    Likewise for Ly and as soon as his title is cleared by FIDE Cheng.
    You don't seem to have edited Bjelobrk out of your stats.

    The interesting thing with Bjelobrk is he has to be one of the favourites to get the IM title this time. His peak published rating is 2399 as far as I can tell. I wonder whether he got over 2400 at any stage.

  10. #10
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oepty
    You don't seem to have edited Bjelobrk out of your stats.
    Ta. I did not notice he had been removed from the first post. Edited.

  11. #11
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    I was wondering whether Ari Dale was the lowest rated player to gain the IM title from the zonal.

    Rating when gaining the IM title

    James Morris 2114
    David Smerdon 2173
    Andrew Brown 2175
    Ari Dale 2222
    Irina Berezina 2230
    Zong Yuan Zhao 2242
    Puchen Wang 2251
    Mirko Rujevic 2303
    Paul Garbett 2312
    Anthony Ker 2321
    Igor Bjelobrk 2329
    Vladimir Feldman 2330
    Mark Chapman 2338

  12. #12
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

    IM
    Igor Bjelobrk
    Ari Dale

    FM
    Anton Smirnov

    WIM
    Katherine Jarek

    WFM
    Hilda Vukikomoala (Fiji)
    Savithri Narenthran

    Note re Justin Tan and Anton Smirnov: Justin was awarded the title by rating on the same day as he would have otherwise been awarded it from the Zonal. Anton was awarded it from the Zonal on the same day as he (provisionally) crossed by rating.

    Updating previous total comments, changes in bold (and I'm giving Chapman benefit of the doubt on whether he has the norms until I hear otherwise) :

    There are 60 titles listed in all. Of these Zhao, N Szuveges, Morris, E Guo and Maroroa all received titles twice through zonals, so that leaves 50 players receiving one title and 5 receiving two.

    Of the dual holders:

    * Zhao and Morris have since achieved requirements for both titles by normal means.
    * Maroroa has achieved the requirement for WFM the normal way by crossing 2100 in the 4NCL 2012-13 round 5.
    * I don't think N Szuveges ever achieved the rating requirement for WFM the normal way.

    Of the single holders, the following have later (or earlier) achieved the rating requirement for their titles:

    IM (11 holders excluding duals) Smerdon, Wang, Chapman, Bjelobrk, Dale - but I am not sure whether Chapman, Dale or Bjelobrk would have enough norms
    WIM (6 holders excluding duals) Probably nil unless Koshnitsky was over as an interim rating
    FM (24 holders excluding duals) Cheng, Reilly, Kulashko, Wastney, Smirnov, Humphrey, Steadman, Ly, Lukey, Watson, Saw (A few others have peak ratings in the 2270-2290 range so might have crossed as an interim although this is not all that likely.)
    WFM (10 holders excluding duals): Nil

    Thus in total of 55 winners of 60 zonal titles, it seems that 16-19 have gone on to perform well enough to have earned 18-21 of the same titles between them by conventional means; a few of the younger zonal title winners will later do so as well but the majority of Zonal title winners have not and presumably never will reach the targets for winning the same title normally.

    Corrections welcome.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 22-03-2017 at 10:45 PM.

  13. #13
    CC Grandmaster ER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinBonham

    Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

    IM
    Igor Bjelobrk
    Ari Dale

    FM
    Anton Smirnov

    WIM
    Katherine Jarek

    WFM
    Hilda Vukikomoala (Fiji)
    Savithri Narenthran
    Hi Kev, shouldn't Justin be on this list or am I missing something? His name appears on the previous (Bill's) list
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  14. #14
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jak
    Hi Kev, shouldn't Justin be on this list or am I missing something? His name appears on the previous (Bill's) list
    Bill edited his list just after I posted mine.

    FIDE awarded the title to Justin by rating, with notice of that reaching me at 8:03 pm on 11 June. Since he was already titled but had not been titled at the time of the event, they did not include him in the list of Zonal titles which reached me at 9:35 pm on 11 June. Otherwise they would have, and his eligibility meant that the FM title didn't cascade down to the next person. I actually initially applied for Justin's title by rating on 1 June but FIDE either didn't receive or else lost the email at that time.

    It's a matter of interpretation whether to include him on the list or not.

    In terms of when he completed the requirements, he completed the rating requirement (as confirmed by later processing) when he defeated Gary Lane in round seven of the Zonal.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 17-06-2013 at 02:36 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Bonham - confusing misquote, see below
    Awarded from Oceania Zonal 2013

    IM
    Igor Bjelobrk
    Ari Dale

    FM
    Anton Smirnov...
    WFM...
    Maroroa...
    Most of these title winners I have previously congratulated but not Kiwi Sue Maroroa. Well done Sue and all the title holders whom Kevin named.
    Last edited by Kevin Bonham; 18-06-2013 at 11:45 AM.
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