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  1. #61
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John777
    i give the context of the passage:

    "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." - Matthew 10:34,35
    Family values!

  2. #62
    CC Grandmaster Redmond Barry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John777
    i give the context of the passage:

    "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." - Matthew 10:34,35

    The Gospel of Jesus Christ Has Always Offended the Wicked! Romans 9:33 refers to Christ as a “stumblingblock” and a "Rock of offence.” Jesus clearly taught in Matthew 10:34,35 that He did NOT come to this world to bring peace. Let me clarify, Jesus' did come to die upon the cross for our sins; thus, enabling us to have peace with God through the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ. BUT, Jesus also expects us to preach the Gospel, which OFFENDS most people. Let me define “Gospel” so there is no misunderstanding. 1st Corinthians 15:1-4 defines the “Gospel” as the DEATH, BURIAL, and RESURRECTION of Christ Jesus. This includes the blood of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9).

    Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sin (Hebrews 9:12, 22-24; Revelation 7:14). There is absolutely nothing in the Word of God which requires “holy baptism” or “holy communion” (both terms are NOT found in the Bible). The Bible never attaches the word “holy” to baptism or the Lord's supper. Hence, any religion which ADDS the “sacraments” (another word not found in the Bible) to faith alone in Christ, is a damnable false religion. This Biblical Truth OFFENDS most people. In fact, the Apostle Paul even called such people “accursed” for teaching ANOTHER GOSPEL (Galatians 1:9).

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Belie...ffend_them.htm
    1. how does one preach jesus' blood ?

    2. why is it a good idea to create a dischord in the family unit ?

    3. do you live in a government institution ?

  3. #63
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Uncle Bulgaria
    1. how does one preach jesus' blood ?

    2. why is it a good idea to create a dischord in the family unit ?

    3. do you live in a government institution ?
    Well for 1, it means preaching what the Lord Jesus' blood has accomplished - salvation, cleansing, new life, healing available and more.

    2. Not a good idea but rather Christ stating a reality - that families will be divided because some believe and some do not. In my parent's direct family, I am the only believer.

    3. Not for me to answer really but I expect - No.
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by John777
    i give the context of the passage:

    Let me clarify, Jesus' did come to die upon the cross for our sins; thus, enabling us to have peace with God through the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ.
    Hi John777,

    Hope you are well. Could you perhaps clarify something for me? I don't understand the process of how Jesus dying on the cross results in people having their sins forgiven. How exactly does that work? Did God sign a document saying (in effect) "If you crucify Jesus I'll agree to forgive everyone of their sins." Why did he want his son to die? Is God forgiving only sins current at the time of the crucifixion or also sins made subsequently? Does everyone get their sins forgiven or only "believers?" Does the poor Indian in the Amazon jungle who has never heard of Jesus qualify? If not, it seems a bit unfair.

    I have similar problems with Dan Brown's novel. If Jesus does have a blood descendant somewhere alive today .... so what? Who cares? Does such a person have magical powers? I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    Clearly I need help John777.
    Still searching for Bobby Fischer....
    and fighting against those humourless bureaucrats who are forever lost in the minutiae.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo
    Hi John777,

    Hope you are well. Could you perhaps clarify something for me? I don't understand the process of how Jesus dying on the cross results in people having their sins forgiven. How exactly does that work? Did God sign a document saying (in effect) "If you crucify Jesus I'll agree to forgive everyone of their sins." Why did he want his son to die? Is God forgiving only sins current at the time of the crucifixion or also sins made subsequently? Does everyone get their sins forgiven or only "believers?" Does the poor Indian in the Amazon jungle who has never heard of Jesus qualify? If not, it seems a bit unfair.

    I have similar problems with Dan Brown's novel. If Jesus does have a blood descendant somewhere alive today .... so what? Who cares? Does such a person have magical powers? I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

    Clearly I need help John777.
    http://youtu.be/TVvCe6xZvOk?t=57s
    And still, no one has satisfactorily proven, that it isn't opposite day.

  6. #66
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    Thanks for the link Saragossa. That guy is clearly going to hell - if only for his bad language and smoking.
    Still searching for Bobby Fischer....
    and fighting against those humourless bureaucrats who are forever lost in the minutiae.

  7. #67
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    Lots of good comedians use bad language, which I find distracting. The joke, 'Jesus died for your sins and I hit myself in the foot with a shovel for your mortgage' is excellent but somehow swearing gets in there.
    And still, no one has satisfactorily proven, that it isn't opposite day.

  8. #68
    CC Grandmaster Adamski's Avatar
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    Jammo, Jesus' dying on the cross and conquering death through His resurrection means that the opportunity is available for people to have their sins forgiven by the Lord Jesus if they repent of those sins and ask for forgiveness. This is shown in many Bible passages, most notably 1 John 1: 9. In the NKJV it reads: " If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
    God exists. Short and to the point.

    Secretary of, and regularly arbiter at, Rooty Hill RSL Chess Club. See www.rootyhillchessclub.org.

    Psephological insight. "Controversial will only lose you votes. Courageous will lose you the election." Sir Humphrey Appleby on Yes Minister.

    Favorite movie line: Girl friend Cathy to Jack Ryan in "Sum of all Fears". "What kind of emergency does an historian have?".

  9. #69
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jammo
    Hope you are well. Could you perhaps clarify something for me? I don't understand the process of how Jesus dying on the cross results in people having their sins forgiven. How exactly does that work? Did God sign a document saying (in effect) "If you crucify Jesus I'll agree to forgive everyone of their sins." Why did he want his son to die? Is God forgiving only sins current at the time of the crucifixion or also sins made subsequently? Does everyone get their sins forgiven or only "believers?" Does the poor Indian in the Amazon jungle who has never heard of Jesus qualify? If not, it seems a bit unfair.
    Of course it's "unfair". What would be fair is sending all sinners, which means all mankind, to hell, for the affront to the infinite holiness of God. Yet in His mercy, He imputes all the sins to all believers to Christ, and His righteousness to us. In the collectivist society of biblical times, and of most cultures in history, this corporate responsibility would have made perfect sense. See Honor and Shame in the Biblical World and Good News!
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  10. #70
    Batoutahelius road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Of course it's "unfair". What would be fair is sending all sinners, which means all mankind, to hell, for the affront to the infinite holiness of God.
    For one of our supposed forebears picking fruit from the wrong tree. Get real.
    meep meep

  11. #71
    CC Grandmaster Capablanca-Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner
    For one of our supposed forebears picking fruit from the wrong tree. Get real.
    If corporate punishment is ‘unjust’, whatever that might mean in your atheopathic self-confessed view that we are rearranged pond scum, then so is corporate redemption. Yet the Bible teaches this concept: believers in Christ are saved because our sins were corporately imputed (credited) to His account (Isaiah 53:6) when He was on the cross. And His perfect righteousness was imputed to believers in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).
    “If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions.” — Abba Eban on the UN general assembly

    “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.” — Obi-Wan Kenobi on the UN kakistocracy

  12. #72
    Monster of the deep Kevin Bonham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    Of course it's "unfair". What would be fair is sending all sinners, which means all mankind, to hell, for the affront to the infinite holiness of God.
    I don't see why there is actually any affront. If God is all-powerful, God has the ability to not be affronted by anything, and it would be particularly stupid for God to create humans and then be affronted by their behaviour - since God would be responsible for causing that behaviour in the first place. And no, the free-will fudge doesn't work because God being supposedly all-knowing would have known that such behaviour by God's creations was at least a possibility.

    Therefore if God is going to send anyone to hell for causing affront to the infinite holiness of God, God should send God to hell for culpably negligent creation.

  13. #73
    Batoutahelius road runner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jono
    If corporate punishment is ‘unjust’, whatever that might mean in your atheopathic self-confessed view that we are rearranged pond scum, then so is corporate redemption. Yet the Bible teaches this concept: believers in Christ are saved because our sins were corporately imputed (credited) to His account (Isaiah 53:6) when He was on the cross. And His perfect righteousness was imputed to believers in Him (2 Corinthians 5:21).
    If your god actually wants to send people to eternal torment for the sin of another person, then I submit he is silly and not worth worshipping for one second let alone for an everlasting amount of time.
    meep meep

  14. #74
    Reader in Slood Dynamics Rincewind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by road runner
    If your god actually wants to send people to eternal torment for the sin of another person, then I submit he is silly and not worth worshipping for one second let alone for an everlasting amount of time.
    He turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt just for a turn of the head. Obviously proportional punishment is not on his agenda.
    So einfach wie möglich, aber nicht einfacher - Albert Einstein

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamski
    Jammo, Jesus' dying on the cross and conquering death through His resurrection means that the opportunity is available for people to have their sins forgiven by the Lord Jesus if they repent of those sins and ask for forgiveness. This is shown in many Bible passages, most notably 1 John 1: 9. In the NKJV it reads: " If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
    I understand the claim. You say "mean that" etc Why does it mean that? What I do not understand is the connection between Jesus dying and sins being forgiven. How does a death forgive sins? Why didn't God just say to Jesus "Ask me nicely and I'll forgive sins."
    Still searching for Bobby Fischer....
    and fighting against those humourless bureaucrats who are forever lost in the minutiae.

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